How Do You Adopt a Relative from Another Country?

If you want to adopt a relative from another country, the process involves much more than simply proving your family connection. International relative adoption—sometimes called international kinship adoption—must meet U.S. immigration requirements as well as the adoption laws of the child’s country. 

In this episode, we talk with Debbie Price, BSW, Executive Director of Children’s House International, and Kathy Holliday, International Specialist, also of Children’s House International. They explain who may qualify, USCIS and Hague requirements, age limits, realistic timelines, and why families should work with a Hague-accredited adoption agency from the beginning. We also explore how to prepare your family for the child’s transition, including grief and trauma, attachment, changing family roles, cultural identity, school adjustment, and the importance of patience and support after adoption.

Resources: 

• International Adoption Resource Page
• Kinship Adoption Resource Page
• Raising a Child Through Transracial Adoption Resource Page

Transcript

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Tracy Whitney 0:01

Hi, and welcome to Creating a Family. Talk about adoption, foster care, and kinship care. My name is Tracy Whitney, and I am the content director at Creating a Family. And I am also your host for today's episode about how to adopt a child from abroad when you are related to that child. So it's international adoption but with a kinship twist. So joining us for today's conversation is Debbie Price. She is the executive director of Children's House International with more than 35 years of professional experience. However, she also brings extensive lived experience as an adoptee and an adoptive parent to her work in supporting the adoption community that is served by Children's House International. Joining her is Kathy Holliday. She is an international specialist also at Children's House International, and she is an adoptive parent through international adoption. She has been serving and supporting adoptive families in the community for more than 30 years now. So welcome, ladies. I'm grateful to have you here for today's conversation.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Thank you.

Tracy Whitney 1:05

Thank you.

What qualifies as an international relative adoption, and what level of biological relationship is generally required?

Tracy Whitney 1:06

So, Debbie, let's start with the basics. What qualifies as an international relative adoption and what level of biological connection or relationship is required for that child to be considered for the immigration and adoption purposes?

SPEAKER_01 1:22

Okay, well, um, it's this is all related to USCIS. And a little bit it has to do with the country laws as well, because they may um consider the fourth degree relative or even higher. And so, you know, we can always appeal to USCIS that that is the law in that country if it's um a little bit further out than we have ever seen before. But generally it's going to be a close biological relative. What we see in our cases are usually siblings, grandchildren, niece, nephew, first cousins, maybe. Okay. And, you know, again, this this is this is how we vet the case is to find out exactly how is this child related to you, and and all those questions that follow after that. So we determine if this is uh classified as kinship based on um where are you how are you related? And so those those categories would would qualify.

Tracy Whitney 2:16

Okay, so how you're related, the country from which you would be adopting, and then US law. US CIS, correct. Okay,

What circumstances typically make a child eligible for an international relative adoption from the perspective of U.S. immigration authorities?

Tracy Whitney 2:24

great. And what circumstances typically make a child eligible for an international relative adoption from the perspective of the US immigration side of things?

SPEAKER_01 2:33

Well, let me first state that what USCIS does not want is for someone to adopt a relative trying to work around another the other immigration law. So they don't want people using the Hague adoption process to bring somebody in faster than bringing them in through normal US immigration processes. So because of that, there are some requirements. So it can't these children or this relative has to be in a situation that would be considered by USCIS to be, you know, very more than just poverty. It would have to be they they are not able to care for this relative. Okay. And there are two different, you probably know there are two different classifications. There's the 800, which is the Hague process cases, and then there's the 600, which has an orphan definition, which would be, you know, one parent is um absent either by death, abandonment, or has had rights removed. And the surviving parent cannot take care of the child. And that would be based on not only USCIS standards, but also the local law would be they would go in and interview this this family, this person guardian over with the child and determine does this child have a level of care and um are they able to eat and do they have clothing and things like that? Poverty alone is not going to qualify. So it has to be um more involved than that. And so, you know, they again to avoid, well, this is just a quick way to get a somebody into the state through um a kinship Hague adoption.

Tracy Whitney 4:16

Right.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

So yeah, they're very picky. It's not just USCIS after they approve, if they approve it, then it also is vetted by the embassy. So there it's vetted several times by our US government processes, and they're very picky, like I said, about making sure that this is a real solid case and not just a workaround.

Tracy Whitney 4:37

So legitimate need, yes. Yeah, legitimate needs. They're really looking for a legitimate need. Correct, correct. Okay, and Kathy, are there age limitations that the families need to understand when they're pursuing this? Like at what point does a child become ineligible?

Are there age limitations families need to understand? At what point does a child become ineligible for an international relative adoption process?

SPEAKER_02 4:53

Well, our government has very strict guidelines on this. And to the short version is a USCIS form, I-800A, has to be filed before the child's 16th birthday. In order to do that, there has to be a home study, which can take three to five months. There's a little bit of leeway if the child's eight up to 18 and has younger siblings. But it so they we get calls all the time, and the child is turning 16 in two months. It's just not possible.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Uh so the families really need to be aware that if they're gonna do this, they need to start several years before the child turns 16.

How should families prepare for the reality that the child may be significantly older by the time the adoption is finalized than when the process began?

Tracy Whitney 5:32

Well, and that brings up a good point. One of the things that surprises many families is how long these cases can take. So, how should families prepare for that reality that it the child might be significantly older by the time they get to their home and that the adoption process itself takes so long? How do they prepare themselves?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Well, we tell them up front it this can take two to three years, depending on the country. And a lot of that is like Debbie said, the investigations, you know, from our country is not a quick process. So, you know, they have to consider, you know, your child is going to be two or three years older than when you start the process. And uh, you know, we've seen cases where a child, you know, teenage, maybe they were preteen when they started, now they're teen, and they don't want to leave their friends. So then you can get into the process, and the child may say, uh, no, I don't want to leave.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

And you know, that's that's really difficult for the adoptive family. They've already invested a lot of time, money, but it can happen.

Tracy Whitney 6:35

Yeah, yeah.

How does the relationship change when a child goes from seeing you as the "special relative from America" to seeing you as their everyday caregiver or new parent?

Tracy Whitney 6:36

So, Debbie, many times the relatives who are pursuing this adoption already know the child and have a uh pre-existing relationship. Um, and so they may have visited frequently or played a special role in this child's life. How does that relationship change when the child goes, the child abroad goes from seeing you as a special relative from America to seeing you now as their everyday caregiver or potential parent?

SPEAKER_01 7:03

Yeah, there's a big change, and we try to um educate our families and prepare them ahead of time. Yes, they know you, yes, they love you. You may be visiting quite frequently. There, you've been in the life of this child, but you've been in the life of this child in their culture and in their setting. And so it's a different thing when you adopt the child and bring them to the United States. There's a culture shock. I'm not saying it's good or bad, it's just one. Um and not only that, the home setting is not going to be the same home setting that the child had, and that should be a good thing that they had in the previous culture. So, but there may be, you know, these these adoptive parents have immigrated and they're being they're used to the American culture now. And so they may have integrated some of the American ideas about they don't want the child um with screen time a lot, they have house rules, you know, it's a tighter running ship, so to speak, than what they were used to. And so we try to educate the the adoptive family to understand, no, you're not just bringing a child across the street into your home that is your relative, you're bringing them from another culture, and you I know you've already experienced this, but you haven't experienced it in the same way they are.

SPEAKER_00 8:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

And you need to be patient with that, and it's going to take time for the bonding in the way that now you are actually the parent, um, and you're not uncle or aunt or grandma. And there is going to be huge adjustments. And so, again, preparing with training for in advance of the adoption, and then once the child is in the home, being there for counseling, therapy, support, because they're going to need all they can get to, you know, help the transition be very smooth. Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 8:49

So uh one of the things that I'm hearing you say is that prospective adoptive parents need to be prepared to go slow with their new role. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

100%. Be patient. Yeah. Kind of take the the take cues from the child, you know. Um, sometimes we've had these happen. So sometimes the adoptive parent doesn't think that they're, it should take this long. You know, you're you know me, they they forget about the culture, they forget about the rules being different, and um, they don't understand why this is, you know, now they're having trouble or crisis.

Tracy Whitney 9:28

Listeners, I hope you're enjoying this conversation about adopting a relative child from overseas. I think that the wisdom and the knowledge that these ladies are offering us is fantastic, and it's got lots of wheels stirring in my brain. So um, if you have questions about anything that you've heard today or any other topic related to adoption, foster care, or kinship care, please send us your questions for weekend wisdom. You can go to the link in the show notes, or you can email us at info at creating afamily.org. And we'll put your question in the queue and we'll get you an answer on the weekend wisdom Saturday morning podcast that drops. So thanks so much for listening, and I'll let you finish up the interview with Kathy and Debbie.

Why is pre-adoption education still so important in these cases of kinship adoption?

Tracy Whitney 10:19

So, Kathy, many times a relative adoptive family assumes that because they already know this child and they've already raised maybe their own children previously, that they don't need a lot of preparation or education or training. Why is it still so important for pre-adoptive education to be part of a kinship international adoption?

SPEAKER_02 10:43

Well, it's it's really education is really the key. You know, they they need to prepare to manage these role shifts. Uh, you know, they may be the grandparent, but now they're the mom. Yep. And uh, and you know, like Debbie said, it just takes a lot of time, and education really helps that situation a lot. You know, the trauma-informed parenting strategies that we hear about a lot really apply to these kinship adoptions as well.

Tracy Whitney 11:13

Uh, these children are go through going to go through hidden grief, attachment, and behavioral challenges, and learning challenges. And so educating ourselves about all of those things so that we know what we're looking for and and then we have some idea of what to do when we see it. Yeah, that's a great

When there are children already in the home, what are some of the most important considerations for blending the newly adopted child into the family?

Tracy Whitney 11:34

point. So, Debbie, when there are already children in the home, you know, say I'm an aunt, I've already raised, you know, three or four of my kids. There may be one or two still left at home, and I'm adopting a nephew from overseas. What are some of the considerations that I should think about when I'm blending this newly adopted child into my home?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

Yeah, so again, it's not unlike, it's very, it's it's the same thing as if that they were adopting a child unknown to them, even though they know them. Coming into their home, having that person now living in my space, you know, I don't know if they're sharing a room or if they're down the hall or whatever, but now everything shifts. It all shifts. Attention from my parents are not solely on me anymore. We have to go slower about things now because the relative that was adopted is trying to understand everything, doesn't understand the house rules, you understand the house rules. The child unders, you know, the bio child understands the house rules. So that child actually has um, you know, the social worker needs to talk with the with these children that are going to be in the home and help the family understand, you know, you love your nephew and all of that, and they're coming, and that's exciting. But um, you know, how are you gonna feel if, you know, they want to play with your uh toy or whatever, or ride your bike um without your permission? You know, you need to be patient about that and just help them understand that that's not the way things work in the home, you know, that the bio child has some rights, if you want to call them rights, um, as well. We're gonna be equal here, but um it is definitely going to be an adjustment. Patience, um, going slow, not just all of a sudden setting all these rules for the new child with the expectation that the the child who's already there is like, well, why aren't they doing it? I'm expected to do this, or aren't they expected to do this the same way? And so there is definitely going to be an uneven playing field in the beginning, and um, a lot of preparation for these bio kids are going to need uh to happen to help them understand that, as well as being present. Um, the agency and the social worker needs to be very readily available for any questions or concerns of behavior that that needs attention on any side or but all sides.

Tracy Whitney 13:56

Yeah, I mean the bio kids should really have almost as much trauma responsive training as the parents get. Just age appropriate and stage appropriate for their understanding, but they need to know that what happened in this child's life before they came home to us impacts how they behave, how they talk, how they think, how they feel about themselves, and how they feel about themselves often impacts how they treat everyone around them. That's right. Helping our kids understand that before we welcome someone new into our family is a huge, like Kathy said at the beginning, education and preparation is key for that success.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

Their behavior may the adoptive child's behavior may be um reflecting their fear, their trauma triggers, just not knowing. I mean, yes, they understand, but they're they're not adults, they're children. And so they don't have the capacity to really grasp the whole concept of it. And so they're having all these feelings, they don't know what to do with them, and many times that comes out in behavior that's not exactly what you would hope for. And so it can be very disruptive to the whole family, including the bio kids. Yeah.

Why are trauma, loss, and separation still important parts of these children's stories?

Tracy Whitney 15:11

I think sometimes we assume that there will be less grief or loss on behalf of the child who is coming to join our family because we already know them or because we're still a biological family. Can you talk a little bit, Debbie, about why we need to still be paying attention to trauma and loss in these kids?

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Well, right. So um again, we need to understand the background of this child in a clinical way and help the family, the adoptive family, understand in a clinical way. Yes, you may know um intellectually, um, maybe the child was abused or neglected, or the the birth father, you know, was not the greatest and ran off, or something like that. That's all trauma. That's all trauma that the child is carrying with them. And again, depending on their age, even if they are 13, 14, it's very difficult to sort through those feelings. Um, so we have to understand their history, and their history is going to be, they're not coming to you because they have a very safe, wonderful place to begin with. Right. None of these children do, whether they're kinship or not. They are coming from a trauma background. Every single child. And we have to always look at it that way, including kinship. So we need to be um aware of their history and understanding that, helping them again, slowly, giving them the lead, slowly and um helping them understand the way the house runs, the rules of the home. And when they act out, you need to first just understand that's coming from a place more than likely that is um coming from grief or trauma. Um, or just I'm scared and I don't, I don't, this is just so much. It's so much. It really is a lot. It is a lot. Yeah, it is a lot, and it's a lot for everybody. But but we have to really, as I tell my families when they go to pick up a child, that they don't know. You know, you've known about this, you've prepared for this, you've gotten ready for this, you're an adult. You're gonna see this child perhaps behave in ways that uh is opposite of the way you feel, at least, at least outwardly. Um, and and it's confusing for you, but you have to understand, you understand and they don't understand everything. And even adults have trouble sometimes processing their own trauma and figuring it out. So um, everybody, again, it's the training, it's the counseling to the adoptive family. They just have to understand these all these things can come up in ways that you don't expect. And you have to be prepared for them and always just keep in mind this is probably something coming deep down that I'm seeing here right now. And if you need help, you reach out to the social worker who's been absolutely with you through the process.

Tracy Whitney 17:51

This is also a good time to plug that you should be surrounding yourself in preparation for this adoption with if you have other family members in the states who are but biologically connected to this child, but also close friends and extended family and community that will come around you and say, Well, we may not understand what this child is experiencing, but we love you and we're here with you, and we're gonna support you, and we're gonna do your laundry once a week for you, or we're gonna mow your lawn for you, or we're gonna bring you meals for your freezer. Um, surrounding yourself in preparation for this adoption with those very practical things can really help you just stay focused on the child's emotional adjustment. Right.

What are some common emotional adjustments these children experience when moving to a new country, even when they are joining relatives they already know and trust?

Tracy Whitney 18:34

So, right. And speaking of emotional adjustment, Kathy, what are some of the most common emotional journeys and navigations that you see these children experiencing when they move to not just a new family, but a new country?

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Well, uh especially with with kinships, you know, a lot of these these children feel really guilty that they're leaving family behind. And uh a lot of them, you know, live in very, very poor circumstances. So, you know, that's that's kind of a loyalty conflict that that does come with some of these cases. Um, and then of course the role confusion, you know, Auntie is now mom. And Auntie that came once a year and we had a great time now has rules. And uh that's a hard adjustment too. Absolutely. And I think that's probably one of the biggest the biggest things that we hear, you know, is there's rules, and they probably didn't have many back where they came from. Right. So um we see a lot of issues with internet use. You know, the internet is just everywhere, and uh, most of the time these kids don't really maybe they're being taken care of by grandma and she has no clue, and they're going, they're on the internet and on social media 24-7. Right. And that doesn't happen in under our roofs in the US. There are controls, and that's that's a hard thing because they're giving up talking to, you know, their friends, and maybe their friends aren't that great of an influence, and they don't understand, you know, that that this child has now been adopted, and they vent, and then this it they feed off of each other, and so that's really hard.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

But you know, everything that Debbie said, you know, it it it all kind of blends together, and it takes time to work through. That's the most important thing, I think.

Tracy Whitney 20:26

Yeah, I I'm glad that you pointed out the grief, but also the divided loyalties. That's a huge one, and it's so hard to navigate that when they're coming from very dire circumstances to maybe very comfortable circumstances, and they want to sink into the comfort and let their hypervigilance relax a little bit, but they don't feel safe doing that, and they feel guilty when they do let it in once in a while. So I really appreciate that you keyed in on that. That was uh that's a good reminder for all of us.

How can families create realistic expectations for the adjustment period and support healing without rushing attachment or family integration?

Tracy Whitney 21:02

Debbie, how can families create some realistic expectations for that early part of the adjustment period and then go on to use those expectations, expand them to support healing without rushing the child's sense of safety or attachment or integration?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

So um, again, we go back to, and you're gonna hear us keep saying this, this goes back to pre-adoptive training, um, discussing again the history of the child, um, trying to get a lot of times if this is kinship, you know, they don't feel like they need that much. They don't feel like they need anything, to be honest. So we know the child, you know, we know the culture, it's not a big deal. So we have to encourage them to understand it is a big deal. Um, because this is nothing they've ever seen before, although they think they have. And so, again, training, lots of training, lots of preparation, focus on creating a safe, predictable environment, understanding that trust and attachment does take time, it's not going to happen immediately. Oh, they're they're attached to you as auntie or uncle. This is a different relationship. So it's a different attachment that has to happen. Or more developed, maybe I should say that. More developed, more, more diverse. Every child will adjust at their own pace, and the family has to be patient and consistently regarding, keeping it in mind as they go through their day-to-day experiences with the child, with the needs that the child has, putting them for forefront, really. Yeah. And supporting the healing is uh about building relationships gradually rather than expecting an immediate sense of we're all one now, we're all family. Well, yes, you are, you really are, but saying that and feeling that and feeling safe in that are two different things. Right.

Tracy Whitney 22:48

Yeah, and I think just kind of slowing your daily life down is one very tangible expectation that you can adjust so that you're kind of, I call it shrinking your world down to just the bare minimums so that you can be very focused on each other. You can learn each other's cues, you can learn each other's signals and triggers and really just spend that time being present with each other. Um, one of the very best things we did both times that we brought our daughters home is we shrunk our world down to just what had to be done. Just school, just church, just work. Right. And we just, and that wasn't even a kinship adoption, that was a uh stranger adoption, children unknown to us before, but it gave us time to get to know that child in this new setting.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

Right. And a lot of times you've probably heard this, um, people are so excited, the surrounding uh relatives are very exciting at home. Yeah. The family friends church, like you're mentioning, they all want to have a big party, they all want to make a big hooplaw. Yeah, and that's very sweet and wonderful. And we understand the the reasonings. We encourage our families, not only um, like you said, stranger adoption, but kinship. Cocooning is what you really need to do in the beginning. Yeah, you need to just be um the unit, your own unit, and you need to keep the hoopla down to a bare minimum. Um, and and you can explain that in a kind way. You're not rejecting their kindnesses or their love or their gestures. If you educate your family and friends to, you know, give us X amount of time before we start to have the parties. And this is why, because of these reasons, if you help them understand it, they won't feel feel hurt or offended. Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 24:37

And the biggest thing is just remembering the child is at the center of this, and this may not feel like a celebration to the child. Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

Yeah. And please don't go to Disney World. I mean, don't don't come home and go straight to Disney World. I know that since we overlooked the world, I want to show them everything. It's over stimulation. It is not going to go the way you think at all. Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 24:59

It's overstimulation for me, and I've lived here my whole life. Yeah.

How can the new adoptive parents honor those shared roots while recognizing that the child's immigration experience may be very different from their own?

Tracy Whitney 25:05

So um, Kathy, one of the unique aspects of relative adoption from abroad is that families often share those cultural roots that we were talking about with the children. So, how can a new adoptive family um honor those roots while recognizing that they are now here living in America and their experience may be very different than the child who's immigrating to join their family?

SPEAKER_02 25:32

First of all, sharing the same culture does not necessarily mean you've shared the same experience. Absolutely. Um, what's what a good thing to do is just kind of look at the look at the the holidays or the cultural things that the family did in the country of origin and kind of play off of that, maybe integrate those into your family based on the child and and and what you know is gonna make them adjust better. Um, but that's really something that they need to look at, you know, in their own families and determine, you know, what what works. I mean, it you know, there may be some festival that the child never was involved in in that country, and that's just not gonna help at all.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

So, you know, that's something that's important. You know, it's it's really based on their background, you know, and uh and their emotional trauma. You know, you certainly don't want to integrate something that's gonna trigger some trauma. But that really does the family has to plan that ahead.

Tracy Whitney 26:33

And talk about it with the child when they get here too. Ask them, what's your favorite food? What's your favorite holiday? Right. What did you guys do? Because when you immigrated, say 20 years ago, the cultural experience could be very, very different, as you mentioned, than than the child's cultural experience this year. And so having those candid conversations with the child and don't pepper the child with questions the first week that they get home. Suss this out as you're going. But yeah, those are the kinds of questions to ask.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

And most of these families are gonna know. Right. You know, if they've been involved in the child's life and and visited frequently, there it's something that they'll know what their family, what what celebrations are important to their family?

Tracy Whitney 27:13

Yeah, and expanding on that together can help.

How can families support their kinship child who is navigating multiple identities?

Tracy Whitney 27:17

So, how can families support a kinship child who is navigating multiple identities? So now they're a transracial adoptee and they're an immigrant living in the United States. And um, how do they how can we help them navigate all of those new roles and additional roles piled on top of each other?

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Well, it's just like we were talking about, it's important that the children don't feel that they have to choose between cultures. Yeah. Uh they can be proud of where they came from while still embracing their new life in the United States. So by keeping the traditions, the language, at least in the home, somewhat, uh, and the the cultural connections, you know, will help them to have a better sense of identity. And it takes time, as we say all the time. We repeat.

Tracy Whitney 28:05

I love that you keep emphasizing that this stuff takes time. I love that.

How do you guide families to navigate the language of family?

Tracy Whitney 28:10

Expanding on your um, you touched on you using the the family language, I mean the cultural language. How should families think about how they talk about family? So should the child switch from calling me auntie to now calling me mom? How do how do we work all that out?

SPEAKER_02 28:30

You know, that really is based on the comfort level. Um, we see this with all adoptions, really. Uh, you know, they mom and dad don't usually come very quickly with a lot of these kids. Uh with the littler ones, it more so, but not with the the ones that are a little older, especially. So they may start out just saying auntie, which this person's always been their auntie. And then maybe it'll kind of transition into auntie mom. And then maybe eventually it will be mom, and maybe it never will. You know, that it's just whatever the child is more comfortable with. So the more important thing is that they know that there's a permanent commitment. And, you know, that's more important than the name.

Tracy Whitney 29:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:15

So, and that's hard for a lot of adopted families.

Tracy Whitney 29:18

So, our family is forever. No matter what you call me, our family is forever. Right. That's awesome. And is that a question that you get a lot from these kinship adoptive families? Like, what are they gonna what are they gonna call me? When do they start calling me?

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Not usually, but you know, we we do try and counsel them that that comes with time with all these adoptive families, you know, even the ones that are not kinship, yeah, especially with the kids that are a little older.

Tracy Whitney 29:42

I love that you include that in your training. That's fantastic. So,

Sometimes one parent is biologically related to the child while the other is not. Do you see any unique challenges or opportunities that arise in those situations?

Tracy Whitney 29:47

Debbie, sometimes one parent is biologically related to the child and the other is not. Do you see any unique challenges or opportunities that come up in those situations?

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Well, we've had, I've had um a case like that. And um it but you know, with any adoption, both spouses must be on the same page. They must both want to do this and be committed to this. And you can't have one more committed or fully committed, and the other one's just doing it because, you know, he wants it or she wants it. Yeah, that won't work. That won't work at all for either either situation. So we have had a case like that. The um the non-related parent was on board 100%, probably maybe even what I won't say more enthusiastically, I'll put it that way, than the actual bio uncle. Um, he was all for it, but you know, he wasn't as um expressive as as his wife. Um as it turned out though, um, these were older boys, and by the time they got into the home um of the uncle, they to him, they were very um disrespectful. And again, it comes back from this is a new setting, they didn't have these kind of rules. Now you have a lot harder rules, you expect a lot of things that they've never had to deal with. And we're talking, one of these children was already over 16. Yeah. So he felt like he was in, you know, they're adopting children at a time in a child development stage that they're just normally wanting to be more independent, right? And that presents its own issues, especially when you have boys and a father figure that you haven't had before.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Right.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Because father figures want to be respected, and children who are boy, young men who are um getting into the I, you know, independent stage, they are not um so much into that. Now, so the non-related wife was trying to be very kind, understanding. She understood why they came off as being disrespectful, and she was trying to explain that to her husband, who was the uncle, and he just wasn't accepting it. This was a culture that was male-dominated, yeah, and so it just wasn't working for him, and he expected total respect, which meant compliance, right? Um, much stronger than really these children were capable of giving. And there were head head butting. But I will say she did the best she could as a non-relative. I think she really wanted to be the mom or a mom figure to them and loved them. She did. And again, he was stuck on the I I'm I'm dad, you must respect me. So it but it can go the other way. It can go that the non-related is feeling displaced, feeling like you're putting so much attention to these children, they're not even our bio kids. You know, that can that can happen. So you can get a lot of dynamics going on that as you know, the social work clinical side of the agency really needs to be aware and be um discussing again in the beginning, and to have those trainings about, you know, these are some scenarios that can happen. And when that happens, how are you gonna feel? Let's talk about what would you feel like if this happened in your home? You know, you're gonna see your your the spouse you married that is has immigrated in a different relationship now. You're going to see him. Maybe you never had children. In this case, they never had. So now you're seeing them him as daddy, and you've never seen him as daddy before. Now you're having to deal with do I like the way that he's being daddy? Maybe I don't agree with how he's being daddy. We have that in marriages. So you have to be um on the same page as much as possible, work as a team, and again, provide more time to develop the trust and attachment, patience, consistency, teamwork, maybe having um a having somebody come in, give you a little respite so that mom so mom and dad can go out and continue rebuilding their relationship, talk about how they're gonna strengthen things, maybe have some counseling and come back into the family again after a night of that with some new concepts. But what we've seen so far, at least I have, is that um the non-related spouse has been 100% on board. It would be a very, very different story if they were not. And so I don't think you should proceed if they're not 100% on board because you're setting yourself up for huge failure.

Tracy Whitney 34:25

Yeah, it's very hard to do if you're on separate pages. Right. Yeah. It strikes me also, as you were talking, that it might even be helpful, especially if one parent is from a completely different culture than the one that the children are coming from. It might be helpful to just kind of do some really deep digs and see what you can learn and educate yourself about the cultural norms that these children have experienced or that your partner has experienced that you've never lived. You know, do some reading, do some research, and and just try and grapple with, you know, you mentioned uh, you know, male-dominated culture. If that's not what you've come from and you don't understand it, you've got to get yourself equipped because it's not good or bad, it's just different, and you've not had it.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

In this case, it was it was the father, it was the uncle, it was the male uh who was the relate relative. And you know, we always tell people, you're going to parent the way you were parented. You may parent the way you were parented, and you don't even realize it when that happens. And so some ugly things might start to come out that you it's all you know, it's how you were parented, and so you're going to his father was probably very strict, and so now he's very strict. Yeah. Uh, and we could not get him to shift on that.

Tracy Whitney 35:51

To budge, right? And so to that point, it's probably also good to do some self-work on your attachment style so that you can be prepared to meet the children where they're at and understand what they need so that you're coming from a place of strength, not a place of wounding.

SPEAKER_01 36:11

Right, right, right. And again, we find many times um these in these, again, kinship or non, that we have to investigate their past traumas and their past parenting in the bio part of the home study evaluation. Maybe we need to work a little bit on what we perceive that there may be some difficulties that they haven't dealt with or even realize they had during this process to prepare them for these children coming into their homes.

Tracy Whitney 36:41

Hey, we've been talking a lot in this interview about the importance of surrounding yourself with support and education and friends and family who get it and who understand what you're experiencing. If you are looking for a community like that, please consider joining our Facebook group. We are 11,000 strong, but we have a nice core group of those who are regularly active and we answer each other's questions and we brainstorm and we share experiences and we talk about what it's like to live the everyday experience of raising adopted, foster and kinship kids. You can find us at facebook.com slash groups slash creating a family, and I hope you'll uh join us over there. Thanks so much for listening, and I'll let you finish up with Debbie and Kathy now. Many families, of course, hope to preserve their child's culture of birth, but at the same time, these kids, when they come to the United States, adapt really quickly to the teen culture of American norms and values and behaviors that they see in their peers. How can an adoptive, kinship adoptive parent navigate these changes and maintain healthy expectations for that connection to their birth culture too?

SPEAKER_01 38:08

Well, again, it's um, you know, with education prior, they need to understand that yes, in some situations, these children may adapt very, very quickly to the American culture. And that's a good thing. And you never want them, though, to forget about their original culture and celebrate both. Celebrate both, as Kathy had mentioned. You're going to want to celebrate the traditions of the culture they they came from that you're familiar with, making sure that you keep in, as she mentioned, um in mind that you know, maybe everything you you celebrated when you were, you know, 30, 40 years ago is not what they celebrated. Um, and we'll use Mexico as an example in Mexico. What have what do you know they were celebrating? So keep those, keep those going. And of course you can introduce some that maybe they're not familiar with from Mexico and see how they how they react to it. But it's perfect, it's totally encouraged and beautiful for both cultures to be celebrated. And and you'll be able to determine how much does the child want to. I mean, Kathy and I have seen over the years, and we're talking about small children now, but we've seen over the years children who were living in orphanages, and they came to the United States, and they were, they had some awareness, okay, maybe not total awareness, but they had some awareness and they had memory. And people would automatically take it specifically from China, um, their children to Chinese restaurants so that they could hear the Chinese waiters speak to them in Chinese. And a lot of times these children would cry, crawl under the table. They didn't want anything to do with it, not anything whatsoever. Yep. Um, because they had they had very bad traumatic memories that they weren't able to express and they weren't able to verbally express at this time. Now that you're probably not going to adopt a child that young kinship, but you know, people can still have those children can still have what seems to be um out of ordinary responses, like almost outrageous responses, exactly the same way. In fact, now that they're adopting older children, the older children may say, you know what, I'm an American now, and I'm done with that. And that's coming from a place of trauma and pain, I think. You know, and to help them understand that the culture itself did not cause you the trauma and the pain. It was the circumstances. And so it's it's just good to embrace both sides and and again, slow, patient with lots of education and preparation.

Tracy Whitney 40:40

Correct. Yes, absolutely.

What should families know about helping a child transition into the American school system?

Tracy Whitney 40:42

So, Kathy, let's pivot just a little bit and talk about what families need to know about helping a relative child that they've just adopted transition into the American school system, especially when issues like grade placement and educational expectations are very different than what was in the home country.

SPEAKER_02 41:01

Well, this is a question for all adoptive families that are bringing a child from another country. You know, we encourage them uh while they're waiting on the process to go and explore what will be a good school for your child. You know, your child probably there's not going to be much English, uh, you know, many English skills with that the child's gonna have. So they need to see, make sure that there's English learner services. You know, that's really important. With the kinship families, it's great if there's a school where their cousins are going to. So they have that connection. And that helps the transition quite a bit. But really, you know, the most important thing is again this time. They they really have to not expect that there's going to be a huge amount of progress that first year.

Tracy Whitney 41:49

Yeah, that's really good. Just letting them soak it in and get safe or you know, feel safe, feel connected.

How can parents advocate for services and supports if a child is struggling academically, socially, or emotionally after arrival?

Tracy Whitney 41:58

Kathy, how can parents advocate for the supports and services that they think a child needs if that child shows signs of struggles academically or socially at school?

SPEAKER_02 42:10

Most of these kids are going to be behind just because of the circumstances which know that they're coming from. You know, they may not have gone to school for uh quite a while or maybe just sporadically. Um, if there's any struggling at all, they need to ask the the school for a formal evaluation. And those are called IEPs, which are individual education programs, and it's funded by the government. There's also a Section 504 plan that that they use, and they will evaluate the child and and give them the appropriate training and education, and there's just a lot of provisions that that are we have that the government pays for, and they need to use them.

Tracy Whitney 42:56

And always ask for those in writing. Always request those in writing, yes.

Why is it important for these kinship adoptive parents to prioritize their family s friendships, extracurricular activities, and play as the children adjust to life in a new country?

Tracy Whitney 43:03

And when a family, Debbie, has a um, as part of their cultural norms, a pretty strong emphasis on academic success. How do they navigate the priority of academic success that means so much to them with the adjustment process and extracurricular activities and you know becoming, you know, a new little American? How do they navigate all of that?

SPEAKER_01 43:30

Okay, well, obviously academics is important, but it's also important to have a balance. Um, you have to have a balance with um the well-being and emotional support of these children, allowing them to have the sports activities and hobbies that maybe they've never even investigated before because it wasn't, you know, it wasn't presented to them in their culture. So they may turn out to be very um very skilled at and talented in music or uh at art or something like that, that they never knew before they came here. And so keep your eyes open for while you want them to have make good grades and have a good education because you know that's important to be have good success here. You also want to find out maybe their their biggest talent is not in math and and you know other traditional classes. Maybe it's m maybe it's music, maybe they could have a uh a career in that. And you have to keep your eyes open and be aware that mind keep your mind open that maybe that's where their career would be. And of course, you don't want to think immediately what they're gonna be doing. But of course, you are kind of looking towards the future. So keeping in mind about the emotional well-being, and again, this is all gonna happen slow. You cannot expect them to be on point when they get into their first or even second year of school. They are going to be at a developmental level and a school probably grade level less than their age would require here in the United States, and that's fine, and you should be okay with that. They need to be put where they would best start their success and not expect them to excel in a grade that they have absolutely no ability to be successful at. Let's put them down where they grade where they test at, wherever that is, and you and and don't be upset that, oh my, you know, here I've I brought this child as 13 and that, you know, they're going in a seventh grade class level. That's fine. That's fine. Yep. That's where they have a better success. So that has to be um really uh reiterated.

Tracy Whitney 45:28

Yeah, and we want them to taste that success so that they continue trying and continue growing. But sometimes what can help buffer that is when you are paying attention to their skills or their talents or their um strengths or their interests, and you plug them into something that helps them taste success elsewhere, also, it can buffer against the frustration and disappointment of not being, you know, in the age-appropriate class right away. And so if you've got a kid who's, you know, outstanding in music and can just pick a tune out, get them private lessons while they're working to catch up to their age-level peers in their grades. Helping them find that success builds success. Success begets success. When they taste that conf, it just makes them feel so confident, and we want to build that in them. So,

Some relative adoptive parents may be parenting again after many years or may be parenting at an older age than they expected. What adjustments should they anticipate?

Tracy Whitney 46:21

Kathy, sometimes these relative adoptive parents are parenting again after many years of being away from it, or they're parenting in an older age than they expected to be parenting. How can they prepare and adjust for that difference?

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Well, that's tough. I mean, they really do need to realize this is life-changing for them. You know, they may have made uh plans for retirement, freedom, the kids are out of the nest, and then it all comes back and it's a whole different world. Yeah. So, you know, they do need to really explore if they're ready for that before they even start the process. So, you know, somebody that's in their mid-60s when they start, if the country will allow that, you know, they're gonna be even older by the time the kid gets home.

Tracy Whitney 47:11

Right.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

So, you know, what's the plan B? What if they become ill? You know, who's gonna who's gonna take up the reins? But you know, it's it's just a whole new range of a whole new range of things to look at, you know, than when we parented, and now I see things that I never thought of. Of course, we didn't have the internet like it is now on every single device that can hold up.

Tracy Whitney 47:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:37

So they've got to get up to speed on all of that. You know, how do they monitor it? There's just a lot to consider. You know, they're gonna have some of their old friendships, they're not gonna have much in common with with them when they're parenting again.

SPEAKER_00 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

So they're gonna have to build new friendships with probably a lot younger families. Yep. So there is a lot to consider, yeah, you know, with with families that where the caregiver, you know, the adopted parent is is gonna be older.

Tracy Whitney 48:05

Yeah, so a lot of honest assessment. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Right. They and I I know they they they have a heart for these kids that maybe don't have other options in their country, but they have to look at that also. Right, right.

For families who have not recently parented children or teens, what guidance do you give regarding technology, internet safety, social media, and setting age-appropriate boundaries?

Tracy Whitney 48:20

Well, you mentioned getting up to speed with technology and internet and social media and all the things. Do you guys offer resources to your clients when they are in that situation and they're trying to catch up?

SPEAKER_01 48:33

There are online, online classes that we can point them to. Um, basic ones, you know, they have the very beginning 101s on um a lot of a lot of uh the internet stuff. Um, I do think that, you know, again, as Kathy mentioned, I think if you are meeting up with younger parents, or younger anybody, it might be uh more educational just to find somebody who would be willing to to help you with that more on a casual, non-formal, you know, where you can ask questions. You can watch videos for sure. Yeah. But uh you you're probably gonna need to ask questions too and understand the as you as you speak to somebody, I know I as I do about any subject that I don't understand or have never uh investigated. I have questions that come up that I didn't know I had until you don't know what you don't know. And so you hear they're showing you things, and then it's like, well, how do you do this? And what about that? What's the slang? I mean, what what is what does it mean, you know, the different Facebooks and all that. If you're not familiar with all these new um platforms, you need to find out what they are and what they do to stay safe, first of all, and keep your kids safe, but also just to understand so you're educated. You don't want to be ignorant, you don't want to be more ignorant than your children. And even bio families become more ignorant as we get older and our children grow up, and we know less than they do, and that's kind of a scary position. So try to stay educated with the i IT and social stuff and the media stuff.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

Well, and it's just dangerous. Yeah, exactly. It's just dangerous. You know, you just can't turn a child loose on the internet anymore, you know. Absolutely. And they do. Unfortunately, they they don't see that in these other countries like we do.

Tracy Whitney 50:16

Yeah. And it goes back to that conversation earlier that we had about surrounding yourself with people who get what you're going through and can be supportive of what you're going through because you may be awaiting the arrival of, say, two young nephews who've had fairly unlimited, unfettered access to any device that was around. But you could also ask a niece or nephew who lives here already in the States, what are some things you can teach me about TikTok or about Instagram or about Reddit or any of those sites that will help me keep these new boys coming to our family safe? And that creates a bond and a connection right there among your family. And then it gives them buy-in towards welcoming these cousins home. Um, so there's a lot of levels of benefit to that, but the best benefit to that is that you are getting educated by someone who's a digital native. Right.

SPEAKER_00 51:19

Exactly.

Tracy Whitney 51:20

Yeah.

Please share your best advice or big takeaway for a family considering adopting a relative from abroad?

Tracy Whitney 51:21

So uh we'll go around Robin here. Each of you, please, um, as we wrap this up, give me your like the one best piece of advice that you want families to consider. Debbie, you can go first.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Wow, one, you're really limiting the um, seek out a hague accredited agency. That that's number one. Do not think that you can do this on your own or adopt the child first and then come to us. Come to a Hague accredited agency first and learn what's supposed to happen so we can do it in the right way. Awesome. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

Kathy, what's your one big piece of advice? Well, uh, love, consistency, and patience. You know, that's that says it in three words. Yep. Yep, that's patience being a really important one.

Tracy Whitney 52:09

Probably the most important to start. That's great. That's great. Well, ladies, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for helping us understand what it means to adopt a young person from abroad that we are already related to. We appreciate uh your wisdom and your experience, and we um appreciate your partnership in this mission of supporting adoptive and fostering kinship families. Thank you very much. It's been our pleasure. Thank you.