Navigating Special Education And​ Advocating for Your Child

Navigating special education can feel overwhelming—but you don’t have to do it alone. In this episode, we’re joined by Paula J. Yost, a licensed clinical mental health therapist, special education advocate, lawyer, educator, and author who breaks down IEPs, 504 plans, evaluations, and how to effectively advocate for your child.

In this episode, we discuss:

• What led you to focus on helping families navigate the special education system?
• For parents and caregivers who may be feeling overwhelmed, confused, or even intimidated by this process, what would you want them to know right at the beginning?
• Is there a preferred or more respectful language we should be using—special education, exceptional children education, or something else?
• What are the key laws that govern special education in the United States?
  • FAPE
  • IDEA
• What are some of the most common acronyms parents & caregivers will encounter, and what do they mean?
  • IEPs
  • 504 plans
  • LRE
  • SDI
  • OHI
• What are some early signs that a child might need additional support or an educational assessment?
• How does trauma impact a child’s ability to learn and show up in the classroom?
• What are the first steps a parent or caregiver should take if they believe their child needs to be evaluated?
• What is involved in an educational assessment, and what should families expect from that process?
• Once a child is evaluated, how do families understand the results and translate them into meaningful support?
• Can you explain the difference between an IEP and a 504 plan in terms of the support and accommodations they include?
• What kinds of accommodations or supports should parents and caregivers be aware of that they can request in an IEP or 504 plan?
• What are some common mistakes or misconceptions parents have when entering this process?
• What rights do foster or kinship parents have when it comes to requesting evaluations and services?
• Are foster or kinship parents allowed to attend IEP or 504 meetings, and what role can they play in those discussions?
• How can foster or kinship parents support a child with learning differences or disabilities at home, to reinforce what is being done at school?
• What should parents do if they feel the school isn’t providing adequate support or following through on a plan?
• For families just beginning this journey, what are a few practical first steps they can take this week to start advocating for their child?
• What message of encouragement or reassurance would you like to leave with parents and caregivers who are walking this path?

Transcript

Tracy Whitney 0:01

Welcome to Creating a Family. Talk about adoption, foster care, and kinship care. My name is Tracy Whitney. I am the content director for Creating a Family, and I am the host for today's episode on discussing special education, navigating the processes, and advocating for your child. We hope that today's show will give you some practical understanding of what you need to know to be your child's best advocate, and then some practical resources that we'll mention throughout the course of the show to support your advocacy and navigation of the process. Our guest to do all that today is Paula J. Yoast. She is a licensed clinical mental health therapist, a special education advocate, a lawyer, an educator, and an author who breaks down IEPs, 504s, evaluations, and how to effectively advocate for your child. And of course, we're talking to a demographic of families in adoption, foster care, and kinship care who often have pretty significant educational needs, learning challenges, and so on. So we're very excited to welcome you to the show today, Paula Yost.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Thank you so much, Tracy. I'm so happy to be here today. I hope I can say some stuff that will help folks.

Tracy Whitney 1:18

I'm certain you will.

What led you to focus on helping families navigate the special education system?

Tracy Whitney 1:21

So let's get started with kind of a little bit of your backstory and what led you to focus on helping families navigate the sometimes very complex special education system.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah, so I graduated from law school in 2005. I want to be clear that other than teaching me how to advocate effectively, I learned nothing about education law in law school. So don't assume that just because someone's a lawyer, they know anything about education law. I learned absolutely nothing in law school about education law. After law school, I went and got a master's degree in clinical mental health. And I ultimately became a court-appointed guardian ad lightum. In some states, they're called court-appointed special advocates, but in my state, they're called in North Carolina, they're called G A L's. I became a GAL for a foster child named Tanya, who I ultimately adopted legally as an adult, who is now my daughter. And Tanya had a tremendous amount of educational neglect as a child. And also, I'm, of course, saying all of this with her permission, and we talk about her story extensively in my book, Tumbleweeds, but Tanya had a lot of educational neglect and needed a 504. And so I got really good at managing that with her. But then a few years after that, I got pregnant with my first biological child who was born with a complete bilateral cleft lip and palate. And so he needed a tremendous amount of services as a little boy. Speech therapy was the biggest thing that he needed. And so I wound up going through in my state, it's again called the CDSA and then early childhood education to ultimately get the best IEP that I could for my son. And so honestly, most of my experience is just lived experience with those two children.

For parents and caregivers who may be feeling overwhelmed, confused, or even intimidated by this process, what would you want them to know right at the beginning?

Tracy Whitney 3:15

So for parents and caregivers who are feeling overwhelmed by the complexity of their kids' educational needs or confused or intimidated because it can be a very intimidating system. What do you want them to know right at the beginning of this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 3:30

I think the most important thing to remember and to always keep in your head is two things. Number one, you don't have to do it all in one day. You can do a little bit every day, or you can even schedule a time on your calendar. I'm only going to work on this and think about this for this 30-minute or this one-hour block of time because I'm going to protect my peace and I'm going to do those hard things during that time period. And I'll just do that every day until this is over. That's one way to do it. The other thing is to remember your why. A lot of times when we feel intimidated or frustrated by the system or confused, it's important to remember that as a parent, you have one job, and that job is your child and doing what's in their best interest. It doesn't matter what anyone else's interests are. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks of you. All that matters is that kid and getting the best possible outcome for that child. So focus on those two things.

Tracy Whitney 4:30

That's fantastic. That's a great way to start the framework for this whole conversation.

Is there a preferred or more respectful language we should be using—special education, exceptional children education, or something else?

Tracy Whitney 4:36

So the second framework we want to set in place is proper and respectful language. So when we're talking about the special education system, the language and tone of how we talk about it is changing constantly. What is the most current preferred language for this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 4:57

To be honest with you, I don't even know. Um, I because it does change so often. Yeah. And also the other thing that I find is that what one family is going to be comfortable with, another family is not. Some of the time I even have a hard time thinking of myself as a special needs or a special education parent because while my son was born with a major, you know, birth defect or birth difference, however you choose to refer to it, he's also academically gifted. So I'm not dealing with a lot of the problems that many other mothers are facing. I see other parents that are dealing with things that I've, from my perspective, are so much worse than anything that I've had to deal with, that sometimes I feel like I don't belong, I shouldn't be in their space because they need help and advocacy far more than I do. And I think that's a narrative that's very common among special needs parents. Some of us feel like we need an endless amount of help. Some of us feel like, well, maybe I do, maybe I don't. I think the best thing to do when you're working with someone in this capacity is simply to ask mom and dad, where are you at? What would you, what do you want to be called? Because that also is good because it does give parents an opportunity to share with you where they feel like they are in the situation. And if you're going to be their advocate or their support, then it also gives you some insight into where they are. I'm 100% sure that there are people who would have looked at my situation when Prattly was three who would have been like, goodness, she's minimizing how bad this is. In fact, I had friends tell me that like this is way worse than you think it is, because you know, you understand what he says. No one else can, Paula. That's a serious problem. And some parents I think do minimize how bad the situation is, because it's normal to be in denial. And if you're really going to be an advocate and a help for these parents, some of the time just asking that very question, what language do you want to be used about your family? That's very respectful and can give you a lot of insight to where they are.

Tracy Whitney 7:06

That's great. And in addition to that, because I have uh raised several children who've gone through the special education system, I would also suggest that as your child grows and gets the language, ask them what language they prefer. Do you want this to be called a birth defect? Do you want this to be called a birth difference? Do you want this to be called a diff a disability or a difference? And ask them, let them buy in. I think when we're teaching them that the language they prefer is the language we will adapt. That's right. We're giving them voice and control. And for many of our kids, they've lost a lot of control and a lot of voice through very many different processes they've been through. 100%. I absolutely agree with all of that. Yeah. Yeah.

What are the key laws that govern special education in the United States?

Tracy Whitney 7:56

So what are some of the key laws? Now we're going to get kind of into the nitty-gritty for parents, that will help parents understand what governs and kind of guardrails in special education in the United States.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

So I want to start by saying that every state is going to have some different nuances and rules. But one of the good things is that ultimately your child's right to a free, appropriate public education, also called FAPE, F-A-P-E, we're going to talk a lot about alphabet soup during this interview, I think. But uh free appropriate public education is a constitutional right. So if it is a constitutional right, then that means that is a right that is gifted upon every American child in the United States. You have a right to a free appropriate public education. So if something is going on in your child's situation where they are not being given a free appropriate public education, then you have a valid argument for a potential lawsuit or some other situation. But the key words that you, the key word you want to always say is fate. We need to make sure my child is getting fate because they're constitutionally entitled to it. You can't argue with fate. That's a constitutional right.

Tracy Whitney 9:14

And again, that's at the federal level. So every state may have slightly different nuances in how they implement it, but it is a federally protected right. Correct. So talk to us a little bit about IDEA, another alphabet soup.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, so that is the Individuals with Disabilities Act. All of those things start getting you additional rights. So you know, the sad thing about this stuff is that if you start looking into the history of so much of it, there were decades of time in American history where we just did not recognize, honor, or assist the physically disabled at all. And so things like wheelchair ramps and things like that just weren't always present in schools and weren't always required, but they are now. And so there are so many things that that laws like that cover. They're very individualized based on what your need is. But you know, usually some of the time it's just a good plan to look into what is my child's need. Start with the need. Don't start with the big picture because you'll get overwhelmed in details that are not applicable to you. Start with the need and then say, okay, if my child has this need, what are we legally required to do based on that need? What or what are what is everyone else legally required to do?

Tracy Whitney 10:36

Right.

What are some of the most common acronyms parents & caregivers will encounter, and what do they mean?

Tracy Whitney 10:37

Are there any other alphabet acronyms at the federal level that we need to be mindful of as we're moving through this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 10:46

So one of them is an IEP, which is an individualized educational plan, which pretty much applies to any child who has any form of learning disability. There is a 504, which is something I see more with foster children and trauma. We're going to talk about that some more in a minute. There is LRE, least restrictive environment. That actually comes from the Individuals with Disabilities Act. And basically, what that says is that a child with a disability should be educated with non-disabled peers as much as possible. So we don't want to take a child and remove them from kindergarten play if they're capable of kindergarten play, because it's good for everyone. It's good for everyone in the class to understand that some people are just different, but it's also good for those children to not be segregated in some way. Um, there is SDI, which is specially designated instruction, which also talks about instruction that is customized to meet a child's unique needs. So sometimes we can't teach to the masses with special education. We just can't. We have to really focus down on like what does this particular child need? The specially designated instruction is a required portion of your IEP. And then there's also OHI, which is just kind of like other health impairment. So if you have something that is not causing a learning disability, but it is still creating a situation that impacts your education. Like if you have diabetes and you're going to need to have your blood sugar checked at school, if you need to have an asthma inhaler on hand in case you have an attack, something like that is to be considered because those things are comorbidities. I also want to add to ADHD is absolutely on that list. Sometimes people think that ADHD is not another health impairment, but diagnosable ADHD absolutely is included in the IDEA as an OHI.

unknown 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

See how I also did that at the end where I suddenly boiled down a bunch of alphabets into a constructive sentence. Moms and dads, that's what you want to be able to do because you want to sound like you know what you're talking about.

Tracy Whitney 13:05

Yeah, coming to these meetings prepared and educated as much as you possibly can. And that's why we do shows like this, because we want parents to be educated and prepared because it's for the best interest of the child. Absolutely. Hey listeners, I'm sorry to interrupt this great conversation about IEPs and 504s and all the other acronyms that are out there. I wanted to ask if you've noticed the fan mail button on your podcast player. We are so excited about this new way for you to engage with us and we want to hear your thoughts, your ideas, your questions. Drop us some fan mail and let us know what you want to learn more about or ask us a question about how to strengthen your family. We cannot wait to hear from you. And if you are listening on any of the podcast players, the button is right on the podcast player page. And if you're watching us on YouTube, it's in the show notes. Don't forget to do that and thanks again for listening.

What are some early signs that a child might need additional support or an educational assessment?

Tracy Whitney 14:08

So when you are raising a child, whether it's by adoption, foster care, or kinship care, or grandparent raising a grandchild, what are some of the early signs that we should be looking for that our child might need additional support or educational assessment, even in this school classroom?

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I think there are two big ones. Honestly, this first one I think sounds so difficult for some parents to hear and to understand. And I want to add as a parent who has been there that this is understandably painful and probably should be, because we love our children more than anything. But the first one is simply a failed performance where you are sitting there going, Why is this happening and why is it not getting better? I see this the most frequently with children with dyslexia, where mom is sitting here going, I know they're flipping letters around. I see it. I see it in their writing. And they're saying to the school, I'm seeing this. And the school says, Oh, they'll grow out of it. It's too early to tell. And now they're in third grade, and the school's like, Oh, yeah, your kid has dyslexia. I know so many mothers and fathers who are like, We've watched this child fail for the last year, for the last however long we've been in school. We've been seeing this, we've been telling you this, and now you want to make it a big deal. Why now? So that is that is one. It's just an early sign of you don't think something's going well. The other thing is quite frankly, people who you trust who tell you there's a problem. Okay. Some of the time what I'll see is a teacher, a very good teacher, who will say to mom and dad, I think this is a concern. And maybe mom and dad don't see it. But if you've got a teacher telling you there's a concern, teachers do not go looking for IEP meetings. They genuinely don't. Right. If a teacher tells you they're seeing something with your child, it's there. You know, in my scenario, I had a wonderful friend who actually just happened to have run all the Head Start and Smart Start dollars for my county. And she sat me down and she was like, I love you, and no one can understand your child right now. You can understand him because you're his mother. You know, you you've been with him since he was born. You know when he points to something what he wants, you know what sounds he makes that means what he wants. It doesn't make make any sense to anyone else. You've got to get your child into speech therapy. Some of the time I think when parents hear things like that, they get very defensive and they get very much like, there's nothing wrong with my child, especially if the person they're hearing that from is grandma and grandpa. They don't want to hear that. Like that can be like those are them fighting words. I really want to encourage you if someone's telling you, someone who is genuinely well-meaning and who probably really does love you and your child is telling you something is wrong, I would give that some attention. I would, even if it's emotionally challenging, I would give that some attention because most of the time there are signs.

How does trauma impact a child’s ability to learn and show up in the classroom?

Tracy Whitney 17:17

So we're dealing with a demographic of kids that in addition to maybe some physical or cognitive challenges, they've also got some challenges related to the trauma that they may have experienced, whether it was abuse or neglect or chaos or multiple placements prior to coming to your home. How does trauma impact their ability to learn and show up appropriately in the classroom?

SPEAKER_01 17:43

That is so significant and not something that should be underestimated at all. What happens when you experience a tremendous amount of trauma as a child is that your brain is literally on fire a lot. There's cortisol and all kinds of hormones that are getting released, stress hormones that are released into your brain in large quantities when they should not be. And it's one thing to experience that if you're 30, but it's another thing to experience that when you're a child, you're emotionally immature and your brain is still growing. So what we see a lot of times with trauma victims is that they have a very short fuse. They seem like they can flip or get angry or turn on a dime. And they can, but they're not doing that because they're a jerk or they're mean or they're a problem child. They're doing that because of trauma. And if you can understand that they're doing that because of trauma and you can connect with them and get them to trust you, you can turn it around for them. And that can be the foster parents that turn it around for them. It can be bioparents, it can also be, you know, it only takes one adult. Kids just need one adult in their life who they can connect to and trust. And then a lot of those behaviors will clear up. And my daughter, goodness, this was my child. She spit in social workers' faces. She was a runner. Like she was infamous already before I even got her case. And in the course of having her, there were absolutely people who wrote her off. And we had to have conversations about that. But ultimately, now my daughter is, she's gonna be 32 in a few weeks. She has a college degree. She finished high school on time. She is a responsible taxpaying citizen, and she is a mother herself. So there is hope. I don't care how bad a child, I don't care how bad their behavior is, there is absolutely hope. You just have to give them an opportunity.

Tracy Whitney 19:50

Yeah. Yeah. Trauma shows up because that lower brain is on hyper alert and perceives threats everywhere. And being asked to sit still in the classroom feels threatening and it doesn't feel safe. And so it's not just we parents who should be about the business of creating that sense of safety for the kids, but we should be communicating with their teachers. This is what makes them feel safe. This is what makes them feel welcome here. And this is how they calm their brains down so that they can learn. Because a safe brain is a learning brain. That's right. Yeah.

What are the first steps a parent or caregiver should take if they believe their child needs to be evaluated?

Tracy Whitney 20:31

So when they're when they're having this kind and gentle person come to them and say, hey, we see a problem, something's going on, whether it's a teacher or a grandmother or a school guidance counselor, whatever, where do they get started? Where what do you do first?

SPEAKER_01 20:52

I'm going to tell you what I did.

Tracy Whitney 20:53

Yeah, you breathe deep.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah. I'm going to tell you what I did. Okay. And what worked for my family. But it's not going to work for everyone. Right. And so I want to talk through why it will work for some people and why it won't work for other people. I was very frustrated with being able to really figure out what is going on. And so one of the problems that you face when you're dealing with the school system is some of the time when you as mom and dad are saying, we're seeing this, school says, it's fine. It's not a big deal. It's too early to assess. If you're getting that type of stuff, that doesn't help you one bit. And what it also does is it causes you to lose ground because if you see a problem, maybe you're overreacting hypothetically. Let's just say the school's right, you think your kids flipping numbers around, letters around, you're wrong. They're going to grow out of it. Well, that's wonderful if that's what happens. But if it isn't what happens, then you have wasted and lost valuable years. Of time where you could be correcting a major problem much easier than you're going to have to correct it now. Right. Right. So what I recommend is whether the school is going to be on your team or not, go and privately pay for an independent educational analysis with a licensed psychologist. Now, psychologists who perform these types of evaluations, I live in a suburb of Charlotte, North Carolina. So I was able to find someone in Charlotte to do this who was about 30 minutes away from my office. Sometimes smaller, more rural communities do not have professionals who can do it, or you have to be willing to travel. The other thing, some of the time these things can be very expensive. I was able to get one done. Insurance would not help me. Sometimes insurance will help you, but sometimes insurance will not. I was able to just pay for it out of pocket. It was about $1,500.

Tracy Whitney 23:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

For the average family, that is a mortgage payment or mortgage and a power bill or rent and a power bill. If you're living paycheck to paycheck, that can be very, very difficult. So I would start by asking for that. If you can get it from the school, that's ideal because they should be doing it and you shouldn't have to pay for it if they do it. If you can't get it there or you're frustrated or you don't trust what they're telling you, look at getting an independent evaluation from a psychologist. I would try to look at things like most of those folks will take your HSA dollars if you have a job that allows for that. And the other thing that I will say to parents that are like, oh gosh, that's so much money. Yes, yes, it is. It is a lot of money. But I also want you to think about the long game. Yeah. Because if you've got a second grader who cannot read and they have dyslexia, and you can spend that summer between second and third grade sending them to private tutoring, getting them the Orthop Gillingham method, doing the things that you need to fix it, you can redirect that chip. But if you don't really get it properly diagnosed until they're in middle school, you've got a major learning disability then that is much harder to correct. I can't tell you the number of mothers who have come to me sobbing and said, I wish I had done something sooner.

Tracy Whitney 24:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Because now I feel like we can't fix it. And he's just going to have this handicap forever. And I also want to add, I don't ever believe that anyone is going to have a disability or a handicap with regard to education forever. I think there's always something you can do to help it. But the earlier you do it, the better you are, and the cheaper it's going to be. So when you're like, God, I don't want to spend that money, use this as motivation. It's going to be cheaper if you fix it. And also in the event you are wrong, I would much rather have somebody tell me I was wrong or what I think is wrong is not that big of a deal and it's something totally different. I would rather get that with a proper plan for what to do. That's the other reason I like the licensed psychologist evaluation because they will tell you, I see this. This is what you need to get your kid to make it better.

Tracy Whitney 25:26

Yep. Yep.

What is involved in an educational assessment, and what should families expect from that process?

Tracy Whitney 25:27

So I want to recap just a little bit for listeners. Number one, you are starting to be concerned and feel like there's something maybe that you're missing or something that you're seeing. Number two, you reach out to the school first, say, hey, I'm seeing this. I'm concerned about it. I wonder what you see. I would recommend that you always do that communication via email so that you have a trackable documentation of all these conversations. And then you ask in writing, can I please have a full evaluation? And you called it an in uh you called it an educational analysis with the school psychologist. Many school department school districts have school psychologists on staff now.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

That's correct.

Tracy Whitney 26:12

Many who don't would also have someone that they can bring in for these kinds of evaluations. They contract all the time. So you've started with expressing your concerns, you've got it in writing, you've you've said, can we do this analysis or this evaluation? If they reject that, again, keep it in writing and then go outside and do your private evaluations. If they don't reject it and they bring they bring you through the system, keep it all documented anyway. And then

Once a child is evaluated, how do families understand the results and translate them into meaningful support?

Tracy Whitney 26:42

after the evaluation is done, what do parents do?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Well, after the evaluation is done, then you need to figure out what you're gonna do. So then, you know, some of the time moms might feel very overwhelmed by what the analysis says. I've definitely had parents that are like, okay, I got it, but I don't understand what it means. There will be an advocate somewhere in your community. There is some special needs mom who's been through this already. There is some nonprofit organization, there may even be someone wonderful at the school who can explain to you what it means. Ask all the questions that you need. And then once you kind of figure out what you need, then figure out how you're going to get it. And this kind of goes back to if you live in a major city or near a major city, it's much easier to get services. If you live somewhere else, it can be much harder to get the services that you need. But you know, the internet has done some amazing things. And being able to find online assistance is much easier than it's ever been before. So at that point, you've got to figure out what is my plan going to be.

Tracy Whitney 27:48

And I would highly recommend the website called understood.org for helping parents understand what it is that these evaluations are saying, what the diagnoses are saying, you know, finding someone who's been there maybe a little bit farther ahead in the path than you've been in your school district, a friend. I mean, I was the first time I got a report like that, I was like, can somebody please interpret this for me? I need a translator. I was fortunate to have a friend who does IEPs for her school district for a living. That's her whole job. And so she walked through uh the report with me step by step. And then she helped me identify the questions that I had that would get us the help that we needed. And if you don't have someone like that in your life, again, you can reach out to understood.org. You can also reach out to the guidance counselor at your local school. They often can identify other families who would be willing to talk to you. Many school districts are starting to develop special needs parent communities, all for the sake of the child. And so it can be a really beneficial thing to just surround yourself by other people who've been there, done that. Once the evaluation is complete and the parents understand the results and can start to identify their questions and the supports that they want to see put in place for their child, what's the next step then?

SPEAKER_01 29:14

So one of the areas that I see sometimes is that this can be where parents hit a wall and that wall frustrates me. Yeah. I've seen parents now who, all right, I got this is the bad thing about doing what I did, which is getting a private evaluation. You've got a private evaluation, it tells you what's going on. Now you go back to your public school. Here, I got this evaluation done. And the school will say, We don't care. We can't honor that. That wasn't done by our psychologist. That really should not be the answer. It really should not be. And that possibly does raise the door to some legal concerns as well, because it doesn't really matter who you work for, as long as you've got the right letters after your name to perform an evaluation. So at that point, you go back to the school with that, whether they want to honor it or not, and you tell them you want to have an IEP meeting. Yep. They are not allowed to tell you no.

unknown 30:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 30:16

Everybody has a right because again, this is about FAPE. You've got a right to a free, appropriate public education. And if you feel like your child has something going on or they need some additional services to get that fape, then you have a right to an IEP meeting. And always request it in writing. Well, you know, Tracy, you've said that over and over and over again, and that's wonderful. That cannot be stated enough. Request it in our way.

Tracy Whitney 30:43

I will say that.

SPEAKER_01 30:45

Request it and copy everybody. Everyone. Everybody. You might have 15 people on that email. That's fine. Copy them all. I want to have an IEP meeting because of the attached report. My availability is A, B, and C.

Tracy Whitney 30:59

Yep. I'm pretty sure there were times that certain recipients would roll their eyes when they saw my address in their inbox.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

Girl, preach to my choir. And you know what? I don't care. I don't care one bit because their personal opinion of me does not matter to me. What matters to me is my kid.

Tracy Whitney 31:17

Yep. And there are so many ways that you can approach this. We'll we'll touch on this maybe later, but there's so many ways you can approach this without it becoming adversarial. It's just you've got to go into it educated about the language. You've got to go into it educated about the climate in your school district. And you also have to go into it trying to assume the best, but being prepared to tackle the worst and holding that balance. Absolutely. Yeah.

Can you explain the difference between an IEP and a 504 plan in terms of the support and accommodations they include?

Tracy Whitney 31:48

So let's get into the nitty-gritty of the differences between an IEP and a 504. You kind of alluded to them at the beginning of the conversation, but this is where the rubber meets the road for a lot of families. So they've they've requested this IEP meeting and they've got this report in hand and now they're sitting at the table. What's the difference between an IEP and a 504?

SPEAKER_01 32:09

So I hate to use the word better, but I'm going to use the word better. Yeah. And IEP is really better. Legally, it's better. In terms of what do you get from the IEP, it's better. An IEP is an individualized educational plan. And so usually what IEPs do is they list off specific things that the school has to do for your child. And again, it can it can be anything. It just depends on what your child's needs are. But we see it a lot. It might be extra time. It might be, you know, one-on-one language services. It might be something involving OT or PT. It can even be something like an ABA-related autism therapy. It can be anything. Most of the time, you get an IEP if there is some form of health-related or physical disability, which again does absolutely include ADHD. 504s, my so my daughter, my son had an IEP. My daughter had a 504. My daughter was tested after I got involved with her case, and she was completely fine. Her IQ was fine. Her ability to learn was fine. She was actually reading and writing proficiently. That was not a concern. There was nothing in her health or brain that caused her to struggle with learning. She was purely a trauma victim. She was also a victim of extreme educational neglect. So when I started working on her case, she was 14 years old and should have been in the ninth grade. But educationally, she was in the seventh grade. And so that was a nightmare because she was having trauma-related behaviors in a middle school. And she was dealing with, you know, 12 and 13-year-old middle school girls with their middle school brain. And here she is ninth grade and also had grown up way too fast anyway because of her home environment. So she wound up with a 504. And most of the 504 was designed to give her a break when the trauma was getting triggered. So if she needed a break from other kids, it was to give her an opportunity of her choice or at a teacher's suggestion to go somewhere else in the school and calm down. I like IEPs better, but it was difficult for me to argue for a five for an IEP for her because there was no underlying educational problem.

Tracy Whitney 34:51

Okay.

unknown 34:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

There really wasn't.

Tracy Whitney 34:53

So 504 is maybe more medical or more psychological?

SPEAKER_01 34:58

IEP is more medical.

unknown 35:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

504 is really more just purely trauma psychological. Okay. But I will say if you've got both, because a lot of children have both, and I also want to add to I I very much believe ADHD is is legitimate and real. ADHD also shows its head a lot in trauma victims. And sometimes ADHD and trauma look like one another.

unknown 35:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

They look real similar to each other. And it's hard sometimes to tell which one you're facing at the moment. For those kids, I really like an IEP. I really do. Okay.

Tracy Whitney 35:39

So you mentioned one yellow flag, maybe red flag is a school saying, sorry, we don't have to acknowledge or accept that outside evaluation. Would you characterize a school that's trying to move you from an IEP to a 504 as a yellow flag? Yes, I would.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

And I want to talk about that. I see this a lot too, especially as children are getting into their older grades. So as we see kids moving out of elementary and into middle and into high school, I see schools really wanting to get rid of the IEPs and the 504s. They don't want to deal with this anymore. And I hate using that type of language, but it that is my observ. That's my perspective and my observation. This is what I think happens. Parents go into these IEP meetings and the school goes, oh, your kid's doing way better. This isn't a problem anymore. And mom and dad are like, oh, great, awesome. Who doesn't want to hear that? Everyone wants to hear. Your child is doing way better. They're fine. These problems that they had are now no longer there. Okay, well, here's my question to that, mom and dad. Is that true? Do you think that's true? There might be some things that, yes, that is definitely true. You know, if your child has autism and they started public school being unable to go to the bathroom on their own and now they can, well, then obviously that is true. That can come off the IEP. You know, we don't need we don't need toilet assistance anymore if they're able to do that. But if someone says, oh, they're healed of ADHD, that is not true. That is not the way that ADHD works. Right, right. You know, it might be that your child's ADHD is under control because they're on medication during the day. It might be that they've been learning some really good coping skills. It might also be that your child is academically gifted and super, super smart and the ADHD symptoms are being masked right now. Right. Or they've got a really good teacher who's bringing out the best of them, who knows how to teach to them. And it's just a match made in heaven. Yeah. But stuff like that doesn't just get better. It doesn't just go away. And so I think it's really important to be able to ask those follow-up questions like, is it true? And if you don't think it's true, don't sign anything. Tell them you're you're not going to participate in that. Just refuse. Come back with an advocate.

Tracy Whitney 38:07

Right. Or delay and say, you know what, I need some time to think about this. I need some time to do my own research and get some outside counsel. I think sometimes we feel pressured to comply and sign on the spot because it could be an adversarial conversation or simply because it's an overwhelming task to advocate for your child. And these meetings can just bring all that to the surface. It's okay to say, I'm going to bring this home and read it over. Can I sign it after I do that? Absolutely. And take your time with it. Um, again, find a friend, someone else who's maybe emotionally not attached to what's going on in that conversation.

What kinds of accommodations or supports should parents and caregivers be aware of that they can request in an IEP or 504 plan?

Tracy Whitney 38:52

Talk to us a little bit about the different kinds of accommodations that you know are you know very common. You mentioned earlier, like extra time and things like that. But like tell us about the accommodations that we can be asking for and help us understand where they fit. Do they fit better under an IEP or do they fit better under a 504?

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Honestly, accommodations can go under either document. Okay. They really can. They can go anywhere. And it kind of goes back to it depends on what your kid needs. You know, some children need extra time with their academic performance or they need individualized one-on-one reading help. So maybe they get that help at the expense of some other activity that they would have during the day, like Spanish, or if there's a, you know, an art or a music time that they, you know, and I also add too, that is a delicate balance because I never want to take a child away from an activity that they love. Right. And I never want to take them away from recess, especially if they have ADHD. You know, you all children need a chance to move their little bodies during the day. So we never want to take away an opportunity to move. And I absolutely don't think removing recess should ever be an acceptable punishment. It's not. They need to move their bodies around. But if your child isn't terribly interested in something like Spanish or if they don't like art or something like that, that may be a good opportunity for them to get that one-on-one time. Um, there's kids that get OT at school, there's kids who get PT at school, there's kids who get all kinds of things at school. So it really just depends on what the need is, but it can be any form of special service.

Tracy Whitney 40:35

Yeah. So parents should feel free to talk with other parents, look around to other organizations like understood.org or places like that that can start giving you ideas for what accommodations might work for specific needs that are showing up in the classroom. If you have a trusted friend who's a teacher or a former teacher, they would be a great place to tap for kind of creative out-of-the-box things. I would also say as the children get older, be careful how much they're being pulled out of class. They, the kind of the central core thing of junior high is to fit in and look like and be like all the other junior hires. So being pulled out for something that makes them feel othered can kind of counteract the attempts that you're making to support and accommodate them. So find ways around that, figure out what works and really, really, as your child is getting older, keep them in the conversation. Ask them what's working for you, what's not working for you. We have a situation where one of my children gets pulled out for services, and this child is so relational and so connected to their peers that they actually bring peers with them during the study hall periods for extra help. And that's not in the other child's IEP, but they're buddies and they hang together and they enjoy learning together. And that's worked for my child. So she doesn't feel othered. And if she has ADHD, that's body doubling. You just described body doubling, which is one of those. Exactly. And it's so good for her. And um, so it's just a matter of figuring out what your child needs, asking around for how your school district meets those needs, and then just kind of pushing and saying, okay, this is what I want to see in the IEP. This is what I want to see in the 504.

What are some common mistakes or misconceptions parents have when entering this process?

Tracy Whitney 42:36

What are some of the most common misconceptions that parents have when they're entering this whole pro, because it's a huge process and it can be very overwhelming. But parents often come into it with some uh maybe some misinformation or they're believing some myths. Let's identify those.

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Tracy, I'm gonna feel really mean for saying this, but I'm gonna say it anyway. The biggest mistake that I made was being naive and believing that everybody was going to view my child the way I did. You know, this is a poor little boy who was born without a roof in his mouth and half of his nose missing, and everyone is going to do what is right by him, and we're all on the same page, and we're all on the same team, and we're all gonna do what's best for my child. I was shocked, horrified, and absolutely furious at how much that was not the case.

Tracy Whitney 43:31

Yeah, that's a really tough one, and that's that's hard to get over when you're already dealing with some pretty big emotional burdens on you and your child's shoulder for the the challenges that they're facing.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Yes. And I want to add too, I have friends who have gone to IAP meetings and they're like, oh, it was great.

Tracy Whitney 43:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

And I'm like, that's wonderful. That's wonderful. But that was not the experience that I had. Yeah. Not the experience of many people that I know, which is why websites like understood.org, which is why this podcast has to exist. Exactly. Exactly. That's not the experience that most people have. And so I don't want people to go into it with the naivety that I had in just believing everyone. Why wouldn't you want to do everything for my child? And I think that's what a lot of non-special education parents believe. Is it like, well, it's a kid. Everyone's going to want to do what's right by the kid. Why wouldn't we do that? That's not the way this works in many, in many areas and for many families. That's why so much advocacy is being done on the background. So don't go into this thinking these folks view this the way you do. They don't.

unknown 44:44

Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 44:45

And that's another plug for educating yourself as much as you possibly can before you ever even get to the table so that you can come from a position of not just I'm the authority on my child, but I've educated myself on this process.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 45:02

It's so empowering to be able to do that. I think another misconception that I want to identify for families is that you need a professional to guide you through the process. And if you're doing your homework, getting yourself educated, getting yourself supported, having some professionals in your back pocket to help you is awesome. But you can do this even if you don't have a professional advocate at your side for every step of the way. And you can, I mean, I've had great IEP meetings and challenging IEP meetings. And the common thread through all of them is I am not going to let my kid get lost through the cracks. I have educated myself as much as I possibly can. And I'm going to throw myself on your mercy and say, what am I missing? What else do I need to know? What do I need to educate myself about that you guys know about on this side of the table that I don't yet know about? And if you can kind of summon that humility, and I always try to frame it in every meeting that I'm in, listen, I am just doing this for the very best interest of my child.

SPEAKER_01 46:07

Absolutely.

Tracy Whitney 46:08

And I'm going to trust that you'll get there. One final interruption to tell you about the Jockey Being Family free online courses that we are thrilled to be able to offer you. Our partnership with the Jockey Being Family Foundation is something that we're very proud of and we're very grateful for. They underwrite this library of 15 free courses that you can find at bit.ly slash JBF Support. That's B-IT.ly slash JBF Support. And you can take one class or you can take all the classes, and they are all designed to strengthen your family, build your parenting skills, and implement your parenting toolbox in ways that will give your family opportunities to thrive. So thanks for checking those out, and let's go back to the show.

What rights do foster or kinship parents have when it comes to requesting evaluations and services?

Tracy Whitney 47:03

Let's kind of drill down a little bit on the topic of fostering and kinship care when we are not the legal guardians having done a finalized adoption. What are our rights in an IEP or 504 meeting and how do we keep things moving forward again for the best interest of that child?

SPEAKER_01 47:24

You should have pretty much the exact same rights as parents if you are actively in the process of adopting the kid. But also if you so it's a delicate balance if biological mom and dad want to attend the IEP meeting. So if biological mom and dad are attending the IEP meeting and you, as foster mom, want to attend the IEP meeting, you can do that. But I do want to warn you that creates a much more awkward situation for everyone because the school system is going to have no choice but to defer to the biological parents because the biological parents have constitutional rights at that point. So you as foster mom really don't have any constitutional rights. But sometimes the school might be willing to hear from you or to ask because you're going to be the one that has to implement a lot of this stuff at home. You know, so you can always participate. But once you are in a kinship placement or you have guardianship, or if you are in the process of completing an adoption, then if mom and dad's rights have been terminated, or quite frankly, if mom and dad blew off the IEP meeting and just didn't show up, you can expect a lot more attention. But just know if mom and dad, bio mom and dad are there, it can be a harder fight.

Tracy Whitney 48:37

Yeah. So uh the ideal in this situation would then be for foster parents and birth parents to be working together, kind of coming onto the same page, supporting each other and supporting the child. When that doesn't happen, and say a birth parent doesn't show to a meeting or the caseworker comes to the meeting instead of a birth parent, foster parents can and should, again, be all about best interest of the child. How can I work with you? It's just keeping this collaborative mindset, which again, when there's a bunch of you on one side of the table that don't really know each other, don't really know each other's capacity for handling this kind of information, can be challenging. But you can only control you. You're only in charge of you. And so if you can just adapt this collaborative mindset of we're here to work for this child's best interest. And that says a lot to the caseworkers that, you know, they made a good placement, but it also can trickle down, even if the birth parents weren't there, it can trickle down to the birth parents that their kid is safe in your care. Yeah. Absolutely. Accomplishes many things when you come with that mindset.

How can foster or kinship parents support a child with learning differences or disabilities at home, to reinforce what is being done at school?

Tracy Whitney 49:53

How do foster parents or kinship parents best support a child that's got an IEP in school? How do how can they best support them at home to kind of match what that IEP or that 504 is saying?

SPEAKER_01 50:07

I think one of the first things is to make sure that the IEP and the 504 is in fact being followed. Some of the time IEPs and 504s, and this can happen whether it's a foster parent or a bio parent, if a IEP or a 504 is not being followed, then an email needs to be sent to everybody that basically says, Hey, I have concerns that this is not being done. But really just following up with the child at home. What kind of homework do we need? What do I need to support you with? Constant communication with whatever or whoever the service provider is. You know, if OT is telling you you need to do this exercise with the child at home, make sure you're doing it and following up.

Tracy Whitney 50:47

Yeah, constant communication between home and school, setting up a regular routine, a designated place to do homework or to do those exercises and that practice, very consistent bedtime, very consistent wake up time. Some kids really need their after-school routine to kind of be a break between school and home. And so they might need a walk around the block or take their bike out for an hour, go riding, play in the backyard with the dog, or some kids need to just jump right on it as soon as they get home. So you set up their little homework station with a glass of water and a nice protein-rich snack and get them going right away. And then they take their break in their downtime. So you got to know the kid and you got to just hold those routines and that consistency as predictably as you possibly can to help them see that what they're doing in school matters and it matters so much that you're gonna try and help them at home with it.

What should parents do if they feel the school isn’t providing adequate support or following through on a plan?

Tracy Whitney 51:48

So when a child has this IEP in place or this 504 in place, and you feel like the school isn't following through, and you've sent that note that says, hey, this is what the IEP says, this is what the 504 says. I don't see it really happening, or my child is reporting that it's not really happening. Where do you go from there? It's time to have another sit-down meeting.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Okay. And I need to figure out why it's not being followed.

Tracy Whitney 52:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Um, and kind of nudge nudge, you need to follow it. Some of the time just raising the issue fixes that problem and it gets it back into alignment. Other times that may be where you need to look at I hate saying it, but that might be where you need to look at hiring an education attorney. Yeah, sometimes. Sometimes. And that should always be your last resort. I really don't want to encourage families to spend money that could be spent on your child's therapy. I mean, sometimes it's honestly cheaper to just pay out of pocket for private therapy somewhere not in the school than it is to sue the school. But there are some families where they don't have another option. You know, the the therapy that they need is so significant or so intense, that's just not a choice. And they've got to do what they got to do.

Tracy Whitney 53:02

Yeah. And this is another place where it's of significant value to have relationships with other parents in the district who are managing their own 504s and IEPs with their kids' academic experience because you can kind of get a tone, get an idea of the tone that's going on in your school district. It it helps you kind of not be taken by surprise. To me, that that was the biggest benefit is just nothing took me by surprise. Yeah. Because I had spent time investing in relationships with other parents who were struggling with some of the same stuff I was.

SPEAKER_01 53:37

And and Tracy, what you just described was the village, right? Yeah. Like unfortunately, when you're a special needs mother, some of the time that village that we were promised doesn't show up.

Tracy Whitney 53:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 53:49

And you have to make your own.

Tracy Whitney 53:51

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 53:52

And those those other special needs parents are really, really valuable.

Tracy Whitney 53:56

Yeah.

For families just beginning this journey, what are a few practical first steps they can take this week to start advocating for their child?

Tracy Whitney 53:57

So for a family that's just beginning this process, what are some of the first steps that they can take starting this week to add adequately advocate for their child? Just kind of boil it down for us.

SPEAKER_01 54:10

Do some research online, study, learn the acronyms again, a little each day. Rome doesn't built in a day. And then do really look at look and see who your friends are. I've even seen some great things on social media. You know, do I think you should go on there and list off every problem? No. But, you know, look on there and just say, hey, I'm interested in talking to some other parents who have been through IEPs and 504s. Somebody will respond. You'll make a friend that way. Special needs parents know exactly what. Once you've been to an IEP meeting, you will never forget that experience. Yeah.

Tracy Whitney 54:48

Yep. Yep. The first one was terrifying. I just walked in clammy sweat and fearing all the worst. And thankfully, it was a fantastic first experience so that I felt like I could get some, you know, get my feet under me, so to speak. Yeah. Um, yeah. So

What message of encouragement or reassurance would you like to leave with parents and caregivers who are walking this path?

Tracy Whitney 55:08

as we're wrapping up, um, first of all, thank you for all of this information and for sharing your experiences and your children's experiences so candidly. But as we're wrapping up, what message of encouragement or reassurance would you like to leave with the parents and caregivers who are listening today?

SPEAKER_01 55:26

There's always hope. Even if you felt like a door just got slammed in your face, there's always hope. There's always another way, as long as you're focused on what's the most important thing, which is your kid.

Tracy Whitney 55:39

Well, that absolutely boils it down. That's perfect. That's a great way to end. Thank you so much, Paula Yost. We appreciate your time and your passion and the advocacy that you do, not just for your kids, but for the other kids that you get to work with. Thank you so much for having me, Tracy.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

It was lovely to meet you.