Why Our Kids Drive Us Crazy Over the Holidays

Do your kids drive you crazy over the holidays? Does their behavior escalate? Join our conversation to learn why and what you can do about it. We will talk with Erin Nasmyth is a Licensed Clinical Social Worker (LCSW) with a Master’s in Social Work. She is the co-founder of Adoption Support Alliance, which provides services and support to adoptive families. She has worked in the public and private adoption and foster care system.

In this episode, we cover:

• Is it common to see behavioral changes for the worse during the holiday season?
• What are some of the behaviors you might see that allow our kids to drive us crazy?
• What are some of the stressors that we may not recognize that cause these behaviors? 
  • New things
  • New people
  • Change in routines
  • Parental distraction
  • Past history with holidays
  • Too much of everything-sensory overload
• Practical ideas of how can we make the holidays smoother for our kids and for you
• Ideas on how to get our family onboard for making these changes to our holidays to make it easier for our kids?

Transcript

Please pardon any errors, this is an automated transcript.
Dawn Davenport  0:00  
This is Creating a Family. Talk about foster, adoptive and kinship care. Welcome back to our regulars. We are so thankful that you have helped us get to where we are, and a special welcome to our newbies. You are going to help us get to the next level. So we really appreciative of both of you. I'm Dawn Davenport. I am the host of this show and the director of creating a family.org Today, we're going to be talking about holidays and why our kids go bananas during the holidays. Why sometimes we as parents feel like, just get these holidays over with I want my life back to normal. So anyway, that is a common occurrence during this time of year, we're going to be talking with Erin Nasmyth. She is a licensed clinical social worker and has a master's in social work. She is the co founder of adoption Support Alliance, which is a nonprofit with a mission to help adoptive families through the unique challenges of building their forever families. Erin is an adoption competent therapist trained through the Center for adoption support and education. She is also a registered raising kids with big, baffling behaviors, course facilitator through the work of Robyn Gobbel and a cultivate connections facilitator based on the tbri principles through the empowered to connect program. Erin has professional expertise in Child Mental Health with private adoption experience as well as foster care system experience. Welcome, Erin. I should say, welcome back to creating a family.

Unknown Speaker  1:33  
Thanks. Thanks so much for having me.

Dawn Davenport  1:36  
So is it just me or do our kids behavior often go south? And I mean way south during the holidays. It seems like one of my kids was always struggling in some way during this this season, you know, tantrums that seem bigger than the event that caused them responding to gifts or other kindnesses in ways that doesn't reflect our family values. And that's to say nothing of the sibling squabbles. Is it just me, or do you see this with other families? And please tell me, it's not just me.

Speaker 1  2:05  
It is definitely not just you. I think, I don't think that there is a family that I have met yet that wouldn't say that this was true during the holiday season. And I know I parent biological children. It is true for them as well, but it is. It is more intense for children who've experienced a disruption in attachment or changing caregiver, and so yes, it is not in your head. It is absolutely happening.

Dawn Davenport  2:31  
I don't know why, but that makes me feel better. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. So what are some of the behaviors that we might expect to see in the holiday seasons. Yeah,

Speaker 1  2:44  
I think you you listed some from your own personal experience for sure. So I would say those tantrums, any kind of emotional ups and downs. You know, it feels like our kids are a little bit on a roller coaster during this time. Sometimes they may be more defiant, they might be more withdrawn, more tearful, more sensitive, just like you said, things that you know typically can kind of roll off their backs, might hit them in a different way. They might think people are out to get them more and kind of interpret things through a lens of disorganization and increased kind of sensitivity to everything around them. I think you can see kids be more hyperactive during this time. That certainly is true in my family. And just like you said, that ungratefulness that tends to come out again for all kids, but even more more so for kids who've had attachment breaks. Yeah,

Dawn Davenport  3:38  
so what are some of the stressors that we as parents may not recognize that cause these behaviors, because in our mind, we're looking forward to the holidays. We have all these and we're going to talk about some of this as we go on. But we have these expectations. We have expectations from our childhood if we're partnered, we have expectations from our partners childhood. We have grandparent expectations if we're fortunate enough to have grandparents involved, and we have these ideas, and it seems like this is going to be a time of family unity, fun, so we're going into it like this, and perhaps we don't recognize things that are stressors, are triggers for our kids. And maybe it would help us if we recognize some of those before we approach the season.

Speaker 1  4:25  
I think that's true. I think anything with parenting, if you can measure expectations appropriately, it goes better for everyone, right? So I think just anticipating what some of those stressors might be can be really helpful. So I think there's lots of fact that play into this. One of the things that I feel like is the biggest thing is just the natural change in routine that happens over the holiday season, right? It's everything is different. We're not really sure what's coming next. Our meals might not be, you know, going out to eat more. We're with friends. It's more it's bedtimes

Dawn Davenport  5:01  
are shot. I mean, they are totally shot. That's

Speaker 1  5:05  
very true, right? They're sleeping in later in the morning, maybe, or they're up super in the morning, right? So just everything can be off, and that can really disrupt our kit. I mean, for us, it can for us too, yeah,

Dawn Davenport  5:17  
yeah. I was just gonna say, and us as well. Let's throw ourselves into this change. Absolutely.

Speaker 1  5:22  
Yeah, yes. I think anything, as we talk about all of this, we can apply it to ourselves as well. Yes, it's not just our kiddos that are affected by these things. And so just the, you know, there's not really a way around that. School is out. There's a break, you know, you want there to be some change in research, but that does add to the stress? Yeah, I think there also can be the change in the type of and the people that are around our kids during the holidays. And so if your child has been not in your home for a very long time, some of these extended family members or or family friends or people from out of town might be new to them, right? And so there's all kinds of new expectations about who is this person coming in? What are they gonna think of me? Do they know that I'm in the family? Maybe I feel like you've got all this history that I don't have with you, and that throws off our kiddos to maybe you know you're out in public a little bit more, or you've traveled out of town, and if there's a transracial component to your family, you're getting more questions about, is she with you? Or, you know, who's getting the check today? Or, you know, those kinds of questions that come when people don't make the assumption that you're not all together. And so I think those interactions new people can really, really throw our kids off sometimes. Again, I think the balancing act with holidays is you want those people in your children's lives and you want those experiences. So the advice here is not to, you know, cocoon and don't talk to anyone during the holidays. That's good, but it's just anticipating what those kinds of struggles might be and what your child's perspective of those new experiences might be as you go through

Dawn Davenport  7:08  
and you know, I'll throw out another one, and that is just the too much, too much of everything, too much dessert, too many new toys, Just too much sensory overload and and everybody potentially wanting to spoil the kids. And so it's not just you as parents, but you know, again, if you are fortunate enough to have people in your life who want to spoil your kids, what a wonderful thing. And some kids handle it with a palm. Other kids do not.

Speaker 1  7:37  
They do not. That's right, and they're trying. I mean, I feel like I I can feel this myself in the holidays of the one and the things. And, you know, you walk into a store and, oh, that would be nice, and that would be nice and, right? And that's times 10, and then they get the things, and maybe it doesn't feel quite as good as they expected it to or, or, heaven forbid, your mom gets the wrong thing. They want this color and this brand, and it's a little bit off or something, and they're disappointed. I mean, it's just their disappointment shows, and it doesn't fill them up in the way that they expect. I think for a lot of kids who maybe this is the first time they're being spoiled like that, it can feel really overwhelming. Of just, do I deserve this, and I don't know how to handle this kind of feeling, and this is too big for me. And, you know, there's just a lot swirling in there that goes with the acceptance of all of this abundance, you

Dawn Davenport  8:34  
know, something that I've heard on more than one occasion. So I think it must be fairly common, and this is more with kids who are in foster care or have or adopted through foster care, or are currently in foster care, and that is the world. It seems like every social service organization wants to give gifts at Christmas time. They want to shower the kids with gifts. So it is not uncommon for kids in foster care to receive tons of stuff, a lot of stuff, and it is too much. And as one mom said, and so often, it's not exactly what they want, or it's the cheap version of it, so it's going to fall apart quickly. And that's a real challenge. Another challenging aspect of it is if you have children who are non foster kids in your family, and a comparison, yeah, and so all of a sudden, and some groups are cognizant of that, and try to bring presents to all the kids that are in the family, but others are not. It's just for foster kids. And you know, there's all the, you know, a party after party where groups want to get together and shower the kids, and the expectation is the kids come and and act very appreciative. And it's a real challenge for many foster families to try to figure out, and, gosh, pardon me if there's anyone listening who is with one of these social service groups. You know, do us a that's not the time of year we. Need tons of stuff, you know, back to school clothing, that's a great time. Or back to school supplies, although there's a fair amount of that, or maybe just Christmas in July. You know, are because I get how fun it is to buy presents for kids. Yes, I get that. And I'm not trying to be a scrooge here. But anyway, I throw that out because I hear that not infrequently, so I think it must happen a fair amount. Yes,

Speaker 1  10:26  
I think that that's true, and I think that that's one of those kind of general stressors. It's just the sensory overload of all the things during the holidays, right? The new toys, the sweets, the smells, the activity and the noise level and the music and all of the things that, you know, all of our kids and us too have sort of sensory profiles, things that we really like, that calm us down, and things that really ramp our nervous systems up. And so if our kids are getting exposed to a lot of those things, and some of that can be new toys and things that they're excited about, just their ability to remain calm, their real ability to react to stress, all of that is compromised by those sensory needs that are just everything is kind of heightened so that excess of that and the pomp and circumstance around accepting the presence and being grateful and acting this way when you're at this party, and then you come home, and it's sort of like, Well, I I gave lots of energy to acting the way I was supposed to act in that moment, and now I've got no more left. So mom and dad, here's the here's the hard stuff,

Dawn Davenport  11:35  
or I didn't act the way I was supposed to act my mom or my dad or my foster mom, or my foster dad or my grandmom, or my granddad got angry with me, and now I'm in trouble, and we're dysregulated, and I'm going to continue spinning because I didn't live up to their expectations, or maybe I didn't live up to my own expectations as a kid. You know what I wanted to do, yeah, yeah. And

Speaker 1  12:03  
look, I've messed it up again, and now they're mad at me, and I ruined the holidays, and I'm a bad kid, and all those sneaky, ugly kind of self talk that are going through our kids, that come from, you know, their lives before they've been in in safe homes, it sneaks up on them. For sure, yeah,

Dawn Davenport  12:22  
for sure. What are some other stressors? I mean, one that certainly comes to mind is, I always think that we as parents need to look at ourselves and you know, we are also more distracted. So what are some other things that we could look internally and say, Okay, how are we contributing to some of this, I

Speaker 1  12:41  
think that's a really good point, right? We we experience more stress around the holidays as adults too. We have all these expectations on ourselves of making the holidays just perfect and having all of the to do things, you know, the lists and lists of things that we need to do and sometimes that our busyness can lead us to kind of miss the connection with our kids, and going back to the ratoon, right? We don't. We're maybe not sitting in bed with them and reading two books or something before bed, because we're putting into bed later and we're so we're just missing that connection because of all the business we're experiencing. I also think there's something that can happen, you know, where we I don't know. I think about especially in family dynamics. So if you go home for the holidays and you're with your family, you might regress a little bit right as you're struggling, or as you are feeling the stress of family dynamics. That kind of throws off what your children are expecting from you, you might just act a little bit different, or be sillier or be more laid back. And not all of them are bad things, but they're different. And so sometimes our kiddos are like, Wait a minute. I thought I had you figured out, and this is how you act as my mom, and now you are like, saying yes to things that you usually don't, or vice

Dawn Davenport  13:59  
versa, or vice versa. I'm being judged by my mother because I saw blah blah blah because

Speaker 1  14:04  
I'm not acting right, and that I'm not perfect in front of grandma, yeah? So

Dawn Davenport  14:09  
my I'm going to be a little stricter here, because grandma is going to approve if I, you know, put the hammer down, you know, because that's what she would have done. Blah blah, yeah, and

Speaker 1  14:19  
she doesn't understand or so and so aunt or family member like doesn't know what it means to parent a kid from foster care or who has experienced an attachment disruption, and don't know that actually these behaviors we're seeing are very common, and sending them to time out is maybe not going to get the same response that it gets for your kids, right? Paddling

Dawn Davenport  14:40  
will give them a good spot on the hiney, and that's going to take care of it. Yeah, I mean, and you don't have time, nor the effort to try to want to explain it, and quite frankly, chances are you have tried to explain it, and it's falling flat. So you're stressed because of the fact that you're being judged the expectations

Speaker 1  14:57  
you're trying to live up to. Absolutely And so I think just being mindful of that as parents, I talk to my clients a lot, and I think about this, and I think that this is particularly true for the holidays, is that sometimes the quality of your connection Moments with your kids during this time is going to matter more than the quantity, right? So maybe you don't have as long of a bedtime routine and those connections moments, but you're making a real point to find one on one time with your child, to just say, Hey, how are you doing? How is this going? How are you feeling? What do you need? You know, can I give you a hug? Those kinds of things and that that those quality interactions really will make a difference to get you all through kind of a disrupted routine of the holidays. And

Dawn Davenport  15:45  
you know, our kids come to us, many of them, not all, but many of them come to us with a past history with holidays, with their family. And as much as we want them to like our traditions, and we want to create a wonderful holiday for them. The truth is, we can't replicate what they experienced, and while we may know that a lot of what they experienced was not good for them, it was still their experience, and their holidays were their experience, and they many of them have fond memories. Some of them don't even have clear memories, but it's their past and they're not having their past, it's different. Now, yes,

Speaker 1  16:25  
I think that can be really true. I've I've learned, I have noticed it in my my own body, and have also learned about how connected our memories can be to our sensory experiences. So even for our little kiddos, maybe who don't have clear memories of the holidays can be triggered by things like seeing Santa or hearing certain music or certain smells of, you know, holiday goodies and stuff and so that can bring their bodies back to the things that were either really hard about The Holidays previously for them, or the things that were really good about the holidays, and that can bring up all kinds of feelings for them, right? And so being clear, giving room for those memories to happen, to talk about them, if your child is able to to give them space to have the feelings that they might have, whether those are positive or negative, feelings, that both are okay and that you use those as kind of a connection point, if at all possible.

Dawn Davenport  17:29  
I'll give an example of this. I know of a family with and eventually adopted him, but he was their foster child at this time, and he was 12, and it was, this was actually their second Christmas with him, but it was a repeat of the first Christmas, and he just would go to his room and hole up, and would if they tried to get him to come out, he would argue and yell things that were unkind and behavior that really had not been typical of him at all, and just really resisting and only being only when forced would he come. He'd sit down for the meal and he would immediately leave. And it was only afterwards, with some real gentle probing by the mom and through a therapist that he said that in the past, the holidays were a time where he probably didn't associate it necessarily, with drinking, but it was drinking related, where the family would get wild, there would be a lot of drinking, there would be yelling, there would be screaming, there'd be extreme happiness, and then, of course, it would dissolve into a mess. And for his preservation, he learned that the best thing you can do during the holidays is go to your room, stay there and don't come out, try to become as a mouse that no one will notice. That's the safest way to do that. And I don't know that he could necessarily have articulated that that was just, this is a dangerous time protect yourself. And it was only through really careful therapy that they were able to uncover some of that. And honestly, what they did was, we'll talk about this in a minute, about strategies. They more adapted to him, at least at the beginning, than than expected him to adapt to them. That's really good. They accepted that this was where he needed to be. And, and another example, kind of on the other thing was a child who just did not seem satisfied. And and was just the meal was all wrong. And this was a Thanksgiving meal, and it was just all wrong. And in her mind, just bad. It was just all wrong. Bad. She wasn't supposed to do things. It's not the way you were supposed to do things. And the mom had tried to make a, she had talked about a, you know, a sweet potato casserole with marshmallows on top. So the mom had looked up a recipe and did that even though they hadn't, and the child did not accept this. And it turned out that in her family, she wasn't able to articulate this. But again, through digging there was brown stuff on top. Well, it turned out that that on top of the marshmallows that her grandmother had always sprinkled a lot of brown sugar on top of the marshmallow. So it was brown stuff. Was on top, and the mom didn't know this, and so her casserole did not have this. And then the mom was irritated, because she had gone to all the trouble looking this up, trying to preparing something new. This child just, you know, rained completely on her parade. Everything fell apart. And again, it was only until afterwards that the mom was willing to explore a little deeper, and they figured it out. And anyway, so I throw those out as examples of things that can make it seem like there's nothing we can do that is right. And yet there's a reason behind it, of the history past history both good in one case and negative. In another case,

Speaker 1  20:41  
I think that that can be one of the most powerful pieces of advice. When those kinds of things come up where you're just like, I am not sure what is going on here and why these behaviors are coming up, or why you're so upset about the sweet potato casserole right, to just give yourself room for and give your child room for? There is a reason, right? There is a reason behind this behavior. I just might not quite understand it yet. And so to try to hold that truth at the same time that, of course, you're frustrated that you went to all this extra trouble to buy these ingredients and do this thing that you expected to be really well received from your child, right? So that, of course, there's disappointment, but to kind of balance that with it's actually not about me, it's about there is a reason from her history that has led to this kind of disappointment, and I've got to create space for that, and eventually I'm going to figure it out, and maybe that will make it hit you a little less painfully. Hit

Dawn Davenport  21:44  
you as the parent, as the parent, yes, it's the parent, yes, because, as is the case of the first example I gave of the the boy who wanted to stay in his room, that family ended up just giving him a lot of permission to be in his room and have less expectations and just gradually, without the expectation that he will change. I think that something you raise, the term that we've heard sometimes from parents, is it feels like they are intentionally sabotaging the holidays.

Speaker 1  22:15  
Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I think that is a very common feeling, I know,

Dawn Davenport  22:19  
and that what you said about there is a reason. We may not know it. We may never know it. Is the truthful answer too. But to give our kids grace and to accept that it is seldom and intentional. I want everybody around me to be miserable, seldom,

Speaker 1  22:36  
like, I would say, almost impossible, like kids want the holidays to be good, just like you do, right? And so when it messes up, I mean, I recognize that they contribute to the messing up. I really don't think it is, it is like I want to try to make my family miserable right now, I don't think that is a conscious thought,

Dawn Davenport  22:58  
because they're also making themselves miserable. They absolutely

Speaker 1  23:01  
are. Yes, it doesn't go well for them either. And so I know it's easier said than done, but work hard to make some positive assumptions about what's going on, or give them the benefit of the doubt, rather than assume mal intent behind the behaviors or assume intentionality around it. Think of them more as you're reacting to memories or traumas or, you know, the feelings that come up during this time, that all of those things make sense. They make sense. They're not convenient to me, and they're making our our situation a little more complicated, right? But, but I can understand where they're coming from, yeah.

Dawn Davenport  23:40  
Another stressor is that often during the holidays, the professional supports that we have in place are not there. Our wonderful therapist, for some reason, wants to take time off during the holidays. You know how rude our teachers, you know, are not going to they don't seem to want to keep our kids throughout the holidays. And that's hard too, isn't

Speaker 1  24:01  
it? It is, I think that you know, if you're getting the kinds of professional supports that are benefiting your family, which I hope that they are, yeah, right, those touch points with people who are caring about them, who are familiar faces, who you know, even as small as the woman in the front office who says hi to them by name you know, when they walk into the school building, well, they're not seeing her anymore. So they are, you know, during the holiday season. And so we're really kind of losing the people who are giving those sort of daily filling our kids cups. And so just to recognize that maybe there are things that you can learn from those, from your occupational therapist, or for your mental health therapist, that can help you kind of give those those moments, give those encouraging moments, give that space for them to kind of sustain them during the time that your vacation schedule, or the professionals vacation schedule might keep you guys from seeing each other as regularly. Yeah.

Dawn Davenport  25:00  
Let me take a moment to remind you that we are looking for your questions. Our weekend wisdom podcast is our answer your questions podcast. Each episode, we take one question and we answer it in about five to 10 minutes. So send us your questions. It makes it a lot more fun for us and a lot more interesting for the listeners. When we get good questions from our audience, and we've gotten some wonderful questions as of late, so send them to info at creating a family.org or if you have whatever app you're using allows you to send us a message, you can use whatever podcasting app if it allows you to send us a message, we will get it that way too. So don't forget, send us your questions info at creating a family.org Okay, now to move to some practical suggestions. Yeah, okay. So now we've just outlined at the end of all this. I mean, half of us are thinking, You know what? I think I'm just going to skip the holidays completely. Skip it. Yeah, let's just happy, nice. I've been there and thought that, so we've really dumped on the holidays up to this point. Now let's shift to talking about some practical ideas on how we can make the holidays smoother for our kids and for us. One that you've mentioned a number of times is managing our own expectations. Let's talk some about that. Yeah,

Speaker 1  26:23  
I think that that can make a really big difference in how we experience the holidays. So I know I've made the distinction a few times this summer, about this distinction between a vacation and a trip, right? And those are very different things. And when you're a parent, what used to be a vacation for you now is more of a trip, right? Because you still have to feed people. You still have to make sure that we've got the right clothes, right you're you're not fully off. And so I think if your experience of the holidays, especially if you're a newer parent in the past, has been very restful and really recharging, and I've got time to sit on the couch and watch holiday movies all day, or whatever it is I'm resting when I'm at my mom's house, because she's taking on a lot of that, or, you know, she's doing the thinking about, kind of hosting everyone, or whatever, that some of that stuff might not be true anymore, now that you're parenting right, because you're You're having to kind of still the parent part doesn't go away, and, in fact, might get a little bit even more intense during the holidays. And then I think letting there can be so much pressure, and I think this pressure is even intensified if you're creating new holiday memories for your family, or new memories for this child who's had really hard experiences before coming into your home, there's this expectation that we've got to do everything right, right, that every day has to be holiday magic, and we've got to do the Christmas cookies and the caroling and the looking at lights and all that stuff and maybe some of that stuff you can let go of, right? And you can think about actually, what's going to feel fun and celebratory for our family as individuals, with a kid who has individual needs, as opposed to what everyone else is doing, or what I feel like I should be doing to be a good parent and that that might feel really, really different, and telling yourself it's okay, right? You

Dawn Davenport  28:19  
know, one of the best things I ever did, and this was not at the beginning of my parenting, but relatively early, I read the book unplug the Christmas machine. I cannot recommend it enough. It is such a good book of dropping some of the shoulds and really focusing on what's going to make the holiday special for you and your family and some of the expectations that that may have been fun, but right now just aren't fitting in your life. It was such a powerful book for me, so I throw it out there as a way of readjusting your expectations of what has to be done during the holidays to make it memorable and special? Yeah,

Speaker 1  29:03  
yes. And I want to just reiterate that, that the desire behind wanting to make it memorable and special is not wrong, right, that that's still okay. It's just thinking about how you're going to be able to do that successfully, giving your child's needs and your child's triggers and your child's sensory profile and that sort of thing that you're really going to know best, and so trusting your gut about I think this will be enjoyable for all of us, but this part might be too much, and then telling yourself that's okay, yeah, it's still

Dawn Davenport  29:34  
a great holiday. It's

Unknown Speaker  29:35  
still a great holiday.

Dawn Davenport  29:36  
It doesn't have to look like the holidays you see on TV or the holidays you remember, you could still keep a few things from your childhood that were especially important to you, but it's okay to say that you know what, we're not going to entertain throughout the holidays. Even though I enjoyed it as a kid, I don't enjoy it as an adult, because I'm the one doing the work, right?

Speaker 1  29:57  
Yeah, that's right, yes. And. I think that one of the things that's important here, too, is to make room for some of the grief and disappointment that is very natural for the parents to feel if they're having to let go of some of those things. So if you're you know if it was really important in your family tradition to go look at Christmas lights every night and see these, you know, wonderful displays, but your child hates to be in the car. Well, then there might be some real sadness to letting go of that tradition, or what you thought it was going to be like to parent a child through the holidays and and having someone that you can say that out loud to a parenting partner, a best friend, a therapist, because you you have needs here too, right? And your feelings and disappointments and grief around the holidays are real and need space to kind of breathe and be acknowledged as well. And I think once you do that, then it's going to be easier for you to show up as the parent that you want to show up as even though you've adjusted some of

Dawn Davenport  31:03  
your your traditions. That's such a good point. Yeah,

Speaker 1  31:07  
I don't want, I don't want any parent to feel like they've just got to suck it up and take it there is room to be disappointed, and that is okay.

Dawn Davenport  31:15  
And there's also room to you could prioritize your which of the things that mean the most to you. You shouldn't have to give up everything that's special to

Speaker 1  31:24  
you either, yes, yeah. And so yes, I think that's a really good point. And I think that there are also some really fun ways that you can think about the traditions that were important to your child, things that the positive memories they may have for like, your example of the child who wanted the sweet potato casserole. Now she missed that a little bit, right? It didn't quite go as planned, but I think that the effort behind incorporating her daughter's memory and peace into the family meal of the Thanksgiving meal, for example, is a really good one. And so in anticipation of the holidays, being able to say, What do you remember about, you know, Thanksgiving last year, or what's your favorite thing to eat, or what, what song do you like the most? Or what you know, just small things that you can bring into your family's traditions that will just make them richer and deeper and help your child to feel more connected to your family during

Dawn Davenport  32:19  
that time. And you can also, if you have connections with the birth family, or the birth extended family grandparents, reaching out to them to help you better understand what it is that was important to the child, or what were some of the family recipes, or what is the brown stuff that was on top of the sweet potato casserole?

Speaker 1  32:41  
Yes. The benefit of openness is you can go straight to the source, and then you're more likely to get it right.

Dawn Davenport  32:49  
Yes. Let me pause quickly to ask you, did you know that creating a family has a Facebook support group? Yes, indeed, we do. It is a large group. It is made up of adoptive parents, adoptees, some birth parents. It has been a great source. It is where I hang out online. It is a very supportive community. I highly recommend it. It's called Creating a family, and you can find it by going to facebook.com/groups/creating, a family, or just type creating a family in the search bar. So what are some other practical ideas of how we can survive the next couple of months? Yes,

Speaker 1  33:33  
let's see. What else have we we not touched on? Well,

Dawn Davenport  33:37  
I will reiterate that the giving the benefit of the doubt that there's a reason for their behavior. We may not know it yet. We talked about that, but I would add it into this practical tip section for sure.

Speaker 1  33:47  
Yes, and if you can really do the work of kind of thinking about, Okay, this behavior is happening, it's very challenging for me. What need might my child be trying to get met by this behavior? And then how can I meet that need? You know, if the need is met, then the behavior in theory will will diminish. And so giving yourself some room to make those adjustments and think about what's the reason behind this? Again, going back to the idea that there always is a reason we just might not it might not click in place for us right away.

Dawn Davenport  34:19  
You know, something that I think that this is just an extension of everything we've just been talking about, and that is to be flexible. We have celebrated the holidays in a specific way before this child joined our family. And our expectation, going back to that word expectation, is that this is the air quotes around the word right, but this is the right way. This is our way, and sometimes we may need to shift it, as with the example of the 12 year old who really just needed to hunker down in his room a lot some kids, they just don't handle coming down seeing a bunch of presents that Santa brought. And. Unwrapping a bunch of presents under the tree, their behavior goes down. They're not appreciative. Are not showing appreciation the way that we think they should. And some families decide that, you know what, we're going to have to do things differently. Perhaps what we're going to do is, you know, starting on the 10th, will open one present every day. So on Christmas, all your opening is one present, you know. It just downplays some of the emotional intensity, some of the overwhelmingness, you know. And I'll give an example of another family that their child repeatedly opened presents. I mean under the I mean they would wrap the presents, and then the child would go under the tree. And before Christmas, I mean, and she would talk to them, and she would say something, and the child continually did it. And so finally, the mom, you know, at some point, you go, okay, I can keep beating my head against this wall, or I could just change. So then I think it's probably the next year, she laid all the presents out and had that child help wrap them. They were the child's own presence, and the child other kids presence. It was for whatever reason, this kid just it wasn't pleasant for them to not know, the excitement of not knowing. So she just enlisted this kid as her rapping helper. And it turned out, you know, as the years went by, the kid got very good at rapping and became the family the family rapper, the mom thought this is wrong. She won't have the surprise. Because for the mom, the surprise and the anticipation was part of the fun. It's part of the fun, right? But for the child, it was not, you know, I

Speaker 1  36:33  
love that example. I because that is the the mother doing the work of putting themselves in the child's shoes, yeah, and thinking about, How does this feel for them? What does it seem like that they are enjoying and what does it seem like that feels really hard for them, even though that that might be very different from what I anticipated. And then making adjustments, that's a really beautiful example.

Dawn Davenport  36:56  
And you know, you may be surprised that once you take the fight out of it, it becomes something that's not important to the child. And I'll give an example of my own life as a kid. I was notorious for spending all of December hunting for Christmas presents and finding them and and trying to find them. And at some point, my parents just said, Okay, well, it's a silly you know, we won't hide them any longer. They're in that closet over there. If you want to go see them, open it and turn it on the other foot. And I, I didn't really, I think I wanted the hunt more than and I wanted to, yes, so I stopped opening the closet. It was like, okay,

Speaker 1  37:35  
that's exactly, I mean, I think that's a great example of what I was saying about, like, just think about what the underlying need is there, right? The need for the child of opening the gifts over and over again was the excitement is too much. I need to know. And maybe it's a little bit of like

Dawn Davenport  37:52  
a need for control. And I think, in my case, perhaps right,

Speaker 1  37:55  
and I don't like when I don't know things right, because in the past me not knowing things, or me not anticipating what's coming next has been really harmful and unsafe for me, and so that is a very different approach from this child will not let me surprise them, and is intentionally ruining this work that I have done to try To make this special,

Dawn Davenport  38:19  
and intentionally ruining my joy, because eyes can't wait to see them open the process and their eyes going, Oh, you've got exactly what I wanted. Yeah, that's what I need. Yes, yes.

Speaker 1  38:33  
And it really, I mean, it can be hard, that can be hard work to do to kind of untangle what is for your children and what is for you. But I really think that that work pays off every time to just give some space to examine what that is, why that's important to you, and why it is rubbing up so strongly against how your child is acting in that moment. That helps everybody to kind of roll with it more easily and have a overall, have a better experience together.

Dawn Davenport  39:04  
So what can we do for our children to help prepare them and to make it easier, the holiday season easier for them? Yeah,

Speaker 1  39:17  
I think going back to the point about the change in routine. I think, as much as you can tell your child and communicate what to expect from the holidays, whether that's, you know, just verbally telling them, Okay, tomorrow is going to look like we're going to do X, Y and Z, or if it's for a child who can read, it's making a calendar and writing down important things so they can go back and look at that over and over again, that can really help reassure and create a sense of felt safety for our children, so that we're kind of counterbalancing that lack of predictability that comes from not having a routine and giving them back some of that. I think whenever you can. In maintaining pieces of your routine that that are the same. So if in the days that you can make bedtime similar, in the days that you can take breaks and do some mundane, you know, family chill out time, or going to the grocery store together, if that's something you always do, or, you know, even sitting down and having a regular family meal that includes vegetables during holidays, right? I think so much we're doing things on the fly or at a party or with friends, and sometimes it's just, let's go home and eat like meatloaf and broccoli, like we do very regularly at our house, and just have some predictability. And so I think working those in as much as you can to your routine is really, can be really helpful for your kids

Dawn Davenport  40:46  
and for us and

Speaker 1  40:48  
for us. That's right, yeah, that's right. I think anytime you're thinking about spending time with extended family members or family friends that maybe your kids are less familiar with, you can do some work to, you know, show pictures ahead of time. Talk about, remember you met them before at so and so's birthday party, or they gave you this gift, or you guys went and did this together so that they can anticipate who they're going to be around and feel more connected to them. And I think it's really important to remember how much our kids change from year to year at the holidays, right? And so yes, they may have been around Aunt Sally two Christmases ago, but they were four, two Christmases ago, and now they're six. And so their understanding of who Aunt Sally is is going to change a lot, right? And so even if it feels like you should know this, you've met them before, their understanding of that relationship, of what it means to be someone's aunt, about family relationships, and that sort of thing. It's going to be different this year, because they're developmentally different and so and

Dawn Davenport  41:49  
if you have pictures from two years ago with Aunt Sally playing with them, take out those pictures and show you and say, this is Aunt Sally. You saw her when you were just a little kid. Now you're a big kid. I wonder what you're going to do with her. Now, you know, you won't play peek a boo because you're, you're a big kid now, but what could you do that type of thing,

Speaker 1  42:06  
and what kinds of things might you want to tell Aunt Sally about she's going to ask you, you know, I think those are, I mean, still that those could be hard questions for me, right? But you're around your aunt, and they're going to say, How's school going, or tell me about your friends. And so let me, let me kind of coach you about they might want to hear about your recital that you did for dance, or they might want to hear how you you were part of a science olympiad or whatever, so that your child can feel prepared to age with those people in a way that you know leads them to be confident and feel like they have something to contribute, As opposed to just shying away behind your leg, or I don't know, or fine, or one word answers, right? You want them to feel prepared to have those conversations as much as they are able to.

Dawn Davenport  42:50  
And, you know, giving our kids permission to disengage. You know, we want them to be there. We want to have because they could help make our Christmas because if their reactions are as we choose, that is special to us. But you know what? Sometimes we all just need some space.

Speaker 1  43:07  
Yes, that's very true. And I think especially if you're traveling, if you're staying with family members, if you're not in your own house, I think it can be really helpful to kind of say, here's where you can go, right, here's the guest room where you can go if you need some quiet space. Or let me show you where grandma's back porch is, because that's a great place to go if you need some quiet time. And just give them lots of permission to take those moments away as they need to, to kind of reset themselves, because that's a really great coping skill, right, even that you want them to have, right? When you're feeling overwhelmed, and maybe you have them ask for permission first, or make sure you tell me where you're going, but you kind of give them that that out that they need, because that will quiet their nervous systems. If they know they have a place to go, they may not need to use it as much, right? As opposed to, if they feel trapped, sure

Dawn Davenport  43:59  
it's it's they know it's there, it's their security.

Unknown Speaker  44:02  
That's right. Yeah, exactly

Dawn Davenport  44:02  
right. That makes great sense. Let me interrupt this interview briefly to thank the jockey bean family foundation for their support in general, but they've been a huge support for this podcast. But in addition, they support our free courses, and it's through their support that we can bring you these courses. We have 12 courses that focus on parenting, be it adoptive parenting, foster parenting or kinship parenting. They come with a certificate of completion if you need that. If you don't, it's just good information for helping you be a better parent. You can find them at Bitly slash j, b, f, support. That's B, i, t, dot, l, y, slash, j, b, f, support. So what are some ideas for this is all fine and good, because we're talking we're the parents, and fortunately, the holidays involve, if we're lucky, extended family. So how do we get our extended family? Be on board, because we're changing their routines too.

Speaker 1  45:03  
Yes, that's really, that's really true. I mean, I would hope that some of this work is happening outside of the holidays, right, especially for people family members, that you're, that you're close to or close to your child, that you're, you are, have at least a couple of people in that space that you feel like you can be honest about this is something they're struggling with, or we're seeing that this behavior is coming up a lot, or that this thing is a trigger, so that you know you're not a day before you're showing up at a family's house, kind of giving them the Okay, here's all the hard things that are about to happen as we you know, as we come into your holiday so that it's not brand new information. Happy

Dawn Davenport  45:42  
holidays. We're here exactly.

Speaker 1  45:45  
Good luck everybody. Good luck trying to find as much safety as you can in your relationships. To say I'm worried about this part, or I'm worried that my son's going to come in and you're going to want him to be around all the time, and he really that can be really hard and overwhelming for him. And so I want to set your expectations that you know thinking about that 12 year old you mentioned he might be in in the bedroom a little bit more than you think. And I want you to know that that's happening, and I want you to recognize that we are okay with that, and we're giving him permission to do that so that it doesn't become a grandma's feelings or hurt when he walks into the other room to read a book for a little while, or even like that John on his phone for a few minutes, maybe not the whole time, right? But that that she knows that you've given him permission, and that that's not a sign of disrespect to her. It is more of a sign of what he needs in that moment to be able to show up the way that he wants to,

Dawn Davenport  46:43  
also preparing her to not then be addressing you by saying, all you do is let him play those stupid games, you know, and he you know. And are the subtle comments about, you know, how this generation is going to hell in a hand basket, because all they do is stay on their phones, or they stay on their tablets and they play these games and blah, blah, blah, so preparing them in ahead of time so that they understand. Yes,

Speaker 1  47:07  
the other thing that I think comes up a lot, I know from in my family that this is very true, is that when we're gathered for holidays, we can have lots of conversations about who looks like who, and hey, go stand next to and where do you Oh, you do that thing. Oh, that's just like your grandpa, right? And so that those kinds of conversations naturally come up in my family, where we're all biologically related, and that is sort of a fun thing for us to do. If we had an adopted child in my family, that would not be a fun thing to do, and I would need to have a conversation with my parents and my brother and sister to say, hey, we've got to be really sensitive if we start talking about genetics or who looks like or where you got something that that's that no longer applies to everyone sitting around the dinner table. I really want to ask that we don't, don't do that, or we shouldn't talk about only things that have happened in past Christmases when Sally wasn't at the table with us, because she's gonna feel left out that she is not a part of all of this history that we all have together. And let's Can we try to make some intentional moments of creating memories where Sally is there and bringing up those things as we're all talking together, and again, like having those conversations, there's no intention of leaving your child out, right? There's no intention that Sally's not going to feel a part of the family. It just happens in families. And so when we have new people in our family, when we have people who are not biologically related to us, we've just got to be sensitive to how much that comes up as I'm doing this work, I notice it so much in my family. What that we we kind of have those conversations very naturally. And yeah, how that might be an ouch moment for someone who wasn't biologically related to our

Dawn Davenport  48:54  
family Exactly. Well. Thank you so much Erin Nasmyth for talking this with us today about holidays and how we can make them smoother for our kids. If people want more information about Erin and adoption Support Alliance, you can go to their website, which is adoption Support alliance.org, thanks again, Erin. We truly appreciate your time and your expertise. Thank

Unknown Speaker  49:21  
you so much for the opportunity. It was a pleasure. You.