Unique Challenges of Aunts & Uncles Raising Nieces & Nephews

Are you an aunt or uncle raising your nephew or niece? Or are you curious about the unique challenges these families face? Check out today's podcast with a panel of four aunts raising their sibling's child.

In this episode, we cover:

• Who are you raising? How old were they when they moved in? How long have they been with you?
• Didn’t ask for this.
  • Less of a feeling of obligation than grandparents feel.
• Navigating relations with the child’s parents.
  • Frustration with your sibling (the child’s parent)
  • Long-standing resentment of the child’s parents.
  • Navigating boundaries.
• Resentment if it’s your spouse’s niece/nephew.
• Navigating relations between other family members who have an opinion.
• Raising your own kids while raising your nephews and nieces.
  • Jealousies
  • Behaviors rubbing off on kids already in the family
  • Lack of time for the kids who aren’t acting out
• Complications of being single and raising nephews and nieces.
• Putting off having children because of the cost and time commitment to raising nieces and nephews.
• Disagreement between parents on whether or not to take in the children.
• Uncertainty of how long the children will be living with you.
• Joys of raising your nephew or niece

Transcript

Please pardon any errors, this is an automated transcript.
Dawn Davenport  0:00  
This is Creating a Family. Talk about foster, adoptive and kinship care. Welcome back to our regular listeners. We are truly appreciative of your support, and we want to welcome our special welcome. I should say to the new listeners, we hope you stick around and become a regular. I'm Dawn Davenport. I am both the host of this show, as well as the director of a nonprofit creating a family.org Today, we're going to be talking about the unique challenges of aunts and uncles raising their nieces and nephews. We will be talking with Dani Wickley, Alex Faith, Genia Newkirk and Angela Bolo, all of whom are aunts or uncles. Well, I guess aunts, in this case, all of them are aunts who are raising nieces and nephews. I'm going to start by letting them each explain who they are raising, how old the child was or children were when they moved in, and how long they have been with you, and anything else you want us to know. Kind of back to your background before we jump into talking about this topic, let's start with you. Dani who are you raising? How old were they and how long have they been with you? Hi,

Speaker 1  1:13  
I am raising my nephew. He was eight months old when we got him in from foster care, and he's been with us for just over two years, and we adopted him just over a year ago. Alex,

Unknown Speaker  1:29  
how about you?

Speaker 2  1:30  
I just took custody of my two nephews. We've had them with us for about two years, and we took formal custody of them this summer. We got the two of them in 2022 one was six months old, and the other was four, and they are now almost three and six. And at the time that we got them, I was actually pregnant with my first born son. He is now one, so I now have three.

Unknown Speaker  1:58  
Okay, excellent. Kenya. How

Speaker 3  2:01  
about you? Hey, my name is Kenya Newkirk. I have legal guardianship of my niece. She was placed in my home initially as foster in 2019 she was five. She is now 11, and like I stated, I have legal guardianship of her, and we're living our best one. Angela, how

Unknown Speaker  2:23  
about you? Well, I

Speaker 4  2:25  
took custody. Well, I took placement of my nephew when he was 11 years old, and he is now 18 years old. So that's math of seven years. Almost seven years. We'll celebrate that in May of how long he's been with us, and we also are a fictive kin placement of a two. Well, now she's three. We got her when she was one. She's a friend of the family, the daughter of a friend of the family. So she's a She's little. So we have a an 18 year old that we've had for seven years and a three year old that we've had placement of for two years, we have custody of both of them at this point.

Dawn Davenport  3:03  
Okay, so you have custody of both of them, all right? Excellent. You know, I have thought a lot about this topic kinship care in general, is something that we do a lot of work in, but I think there is not much coverage of the differences the different types of kinship care, and I've tried to do research to find out if people are talking about this, and I don't think they are. And yet, from my and I see some heads shaking right now, yeah, so apparently I'm not alone at thinking of this, and I think that there are some significant differences between the more typical type of kinship care, which is usually grandparents taking and usually grandmothers taking in a grandchild versus an aunt or even a fictive kin. But in particular, the aunts and uncles. And I say that because we run a very large online support group, both Danny and Alex are members of it. I think we're over 11,000 members at this point, and we see some of our more pertinent questions coming in and also emails that we get as an organization from this demographic. And I'd like to explore some of the reasons why there are some differences between a grandparent taking in a grandchild and an aunt or an uncle taking in nieces or nephews. And one difference, I think, is that you didn't ask for this. Now, in fairness, neither did grandparents, but I think that there is a difference, and I don't know if I can articulate it other than to say that when we have a child, we are always that child's parent, and that our obligation is when our child is struggling, it is our expectation as a parent, even if we don't want to do it, or we didn't plan on doing it, or whatever, there is an expectation in our head that we're a parent for life, even though, let's be honest, when we first have kids, we think. Think that we're not going to be we think that there will come a time when we are not a parent, you know, but that is really never my experience, is that has never happened. So there is the expectation that if our child gets into trouble, or if our child is struggling as an adult, that it is our obligation to take in our grandchild, because we are the child's grandchild, we are the parent. But I don't know that that same feeling exists as strongly, if you are the the in your case, as you are all female. So the aunt of the child, I'd love to get y'all as input, both how you felt about the I didn't ask for this. Do I really want to do this. Do I have to do this? What's it going to say about me if I don't do this? That type of thing? Angela, let me start with you, and then everybody else I'm picking on, Angela at first. So everybody else gets a chance to think about this. Angela, I just figure you can wing this. You look confident. So anyway, Angela, your thoughts on this?

Speaker 4  6:01  
It is an interesting thought, for sure. I think that there is an expectation you're with your grandchildren that comes a little bit easier taking care of your nieces and nephews especially. I'm the younger sister of the biological parent to my nephew, and so it's a different world. But I I've been alongside him since he was born. I've known him since he was itty bitty. I had a very clear relationship with him, and him coming to my home wasn't easy. It was a battle to get him back to us. There was a lot of legal stuff involved with this, with the system, and so I wanted more than anything, for him to be home, and I believe that home involved being with our family and being with me. I don't know if I really struggled with whether or not to do it. I think maybe my mom, my the grandmother, might have struggled a little bit more, but I do. I can see where you're coming from, because there are so many, there's so much of an ease when it's your grandchildren, when you are a peer to the parent, when you are, you know, walking alongside them, I could see how it would be a challenge because, you know, I was single when I took my I know we'll get to talking about that later, but I was a single woman in my early 30s. I had to do the math quick then. And so that was another thing that but I really didn't hesitate, because I knew that he needed to be somewhere and he needed to be with family. Danny,

Dawn Davenport  7:28  
I'd like to talk with you about how you both how you personally felt, and how you've seen, if you've seen others in your situation, how they may have felt, and is that a unique distinction between being an aunt and a grandparent and stepping forward for these children? Yeah,

Speaker 1  7:46  
absolutely. We knew as soon as my brother got his wife pregnant that they were not capable of being parents, so we had a little bit of a head start thinking of this process of maybe needing to adopt. But I do notice the difference of my mom, it was her child who had a child, so her grandchild, and she had instant love for him. There was a connection there, as a grandmother to a grandchild, and I don't have a very close relationship with my brother, so I it was a struggle for me to feel that connection, and that has been a struggle throughout the whole process, is building that relationship, that connection, when I didn't really feel connected to my brother and feel very close, and so taking his child was more difficult. So I can see definitely that a grandparent might already have that love built in, that relationship, that bond my my mother absolutely did, and that was something that I had to work towards as the aunt of the child to grow that relationship.

Speaker 5  8:52  
Mm, hmm, okay, Genia, how about you?

Speaker 3  8:56  
Well, yes, listen to how you entered into this thought of the parent, grandparent, you said, just what I was thinking was obligation. So I think it's easier for grandparents, because it does seem more of a of an obligation or duty. But for me, my story is so unique in that the way my niece came into my life, I didn't even know who she was until she did end up in foster care, but when we laid eyes on each other, it was an immediate connection. So even though she's my niece, our connection from the day we laid eyes on each other, and I, too, do not get along well with my brother, but I'm so thankful it hasn't been a hurdle for me to connect with my niece. And I think it's important to say too for my mother, she had already raised one of my brother's kids, so at this point with this child, there was nowhere else for her to go. And I, you know, from a faith perspective, if I can enter that. Into the conversation. It was meant to be. That's just the way I see it. That's the way I feel so strongly. It was just meant to be for her to be with me.

Dawn Davenport  10:11  
So Alex, what about you?

Speaker 2  10:14  
I can see where you're coming from, but for us, we sort of felt an obligation to take them in. I have known the eldest child since he was born, and we have stepped in in times of crisis for these parents quite a few times before. So it wasn't new to us, and it was the first time that child protective services was officially involved, but it wasn't the first time that we had had to step in and care for the boys for before, but we did have to make a bit of a role change, and that I was kind of the fun aunt who would come in, the sort of swoop in, rescue them, take them for a couple of weeks. We would have fun to sort of a more maternal role, which has been a big adjustment, at least for me and the older child, not so much where the younger child was six months when he came, so it's a different relationship with him, but it's been a big role change for us, where it's not as much fun anymore. He has to do chores. He has to put his clothes away. We've had to make a big adjustment, at least in that role since he came, but it's a slow adjustment, and it's been fun, and I think we're getting there, so I can see where you're coming from. But we did really feel an obligation with these guys.

Dawn Davenport  11:28  
As I said at the beginning, I'm really loving this topic and delving into this topic, so I do kind of hate to interrupt however, I do want to remind everyone that we have a another podcast that we're doing to answer your specific questions. You can send your questions to info at creating a family.org and every Sunday, we drop a podcast called weekend wisdom, where we take one of your questions and answer them in about five minutes. Tell your friends about it, and also please send us your questions to info at creating afamily.org another distinction that when I really sat down and tried to think, what are some of the unique challenges that aunts face, that grandparents wouldn't necessarily face this one, however, is one that grandparents very much do face, but it's different. It's navigating relations with the child's parents, regardless of the type of kinship care. That is an issue, and it's an issue for grandparents raising but I think the issue with aunts, uncles or cousins, family members, but in particular, aunts and uncles because your siblings, I think that there are some unique challenges that come up. I'll just throw out a couple that I'd love to hear all of your experiences on this. Some of the unique challenges is, when you are taking in your brother or sister's child, is frustration with your sibling that they're not doing what they're supposed to do, so you're changing your life to have to do what they should have done, and also long standing resentment of this child's parents being able to say in your mind, you know, you were always the spoiled one. You know, our mom and dad never set limits for you. Our family had to always cater to, you know, your screw ups or whatever, the things that we as siblings think in our heads. You know, then as adults, if a major life change is being caused by that sibling, it's understandable to feel anger, resentment, frustration, all of those things. So I'd like to hear your thoughts on that relationships and anger, resentment, frustrations that you might have or others that you know of. It doesn't have to be used specifically, but other kinship caregivers, Genya, I'm going to start with you this time.

Speaker 3  13:48  
So all of the above apply to me, because the family dynamics that exist between my brother and I, we're 10 years apart. So I was the baby for 10 years, and then he came along. And so yes, I mean just reality, just the way it is. He was always babied, never really made to take responsibility. But one more issue I can throw in that basket is that the level of respect that I know my brother would give to my mom, he doesn't give it to me, he doesn't.

Dawn Davenport  14:22  
It's interesting. Your mom raised one of his other children, and he is more respectful for the role that she stepped in to do. And with you, he was taking you for granted,

Speaker 3  14:32  
oh yes, on every level. So in addition to the two things you name, that's one of the or the main issue with us is that he has no respect and no regard for the responsibility that I've taken on, because he's never been made to have responsibility. And so for me, I'm still working through that, not being a distraction to me, that's a good way to put it. I have to work through. That, because it can become a distraction. So yeah, I

Dawn Davenport  15:04  
can get that. Alex, what about you?

Speaker 2  15:07  
This is the hardest part of the whole thing, just by far. So the mother of the two boys is actually my sister in law, but I've known her since she was seven. I've been with my husband for a very long time, and the boys visit her on a regular basis. So every second weekend, they go to visit their mom. And it's really, really, really hard the relationships between me and her and the father, who is still sort of in the picture, but not so much. I struggle with it on a daily basis. I hear from them all the time, and where the boys are so young when it comes to school stuff, report cards, we're in contact with them all the time. And I find the communication and talking about things and the relationship part, it's a big struggle every day for me, and some things that come my way have been said that were hurtful, or I have heard some very angry and disrespectful feelings coming especially from the mother. She didn't want the voice to be taken from her. She she tried to fight it. It's a really hard relationship for us to navigate all the time. So yeah, it's really difficult.

Unknown Speaker  16:23  
I can see that, Danny, what about you? I

Speaker 1  16:25  
just wanted to add with Ganya that I feel you because my I was the same. I was the baby, and then 10 years later, he came and got away with murder, which I think kind of enabled some of the things that he's dealing with, but with my situation, with my brother is him and his wife have mental illness, cognitive deficits. My brother specifically substance abuse that has created a lot of delusions where he doesn't quite he's not really in touch with reality. And so it's a hard balance, because the son, my child is almost three, so we still have some time before he quite understands that he has two moms and he has two dads, and so while he's this young, we've tried to keep more boundaries and keep it a little bit separate and say, right now, you're just aunt and uncle, and we're going to keep the communication and the relationship A little bit more separate because of those challenges that he faces cognitively.

Dawn Davenport  17:24  
Danny, when you said your aunt and uncle, you mean that his biological parents are being you speak of them as as if they are the aunt and the uncle, correct,

Speaker 1  17:33  
because I have my own son too. So when we call and do video chats, we'll say, Oh, hey, aunt and uncle, and we'll refer to them as that. It was very confusing when our adoptive child was very young, and hearing this is dad and this is But dad is also here in the house, but then the person on the phone is dad, and it was a little bit confusing for him. So we've decided to set, I think you'll talk about boundaries later, but that was one of the ones that we wanted to set right now, like, let's not confuse him. We will app you are always going to be the biological mom and dad, but for right now, you're going to be aunt and uncle while we navigate this beginning and and keeping some safety concerns. And I never quite know when he's going to have outbursts or he might. This is the rest of the Father, yeah, with his delusions and mental illness. So we just it's a very difficult and kind of frustrating balance to maintain with him being my brother and and trying to say, like, hey, those delusions aren't real. So he still thinks that he could be a great father and that the system pulled his son away from him, and he's angry about that, and and when he would go on phone calls, it would be my son, my son. You're my son. And it was very aggressive and and so we've had to set some boundaries with that as well. But it's it's a very difficult place to kind of navigate, especially when it comes to the mental illness and the deficits that I know are there, but also protecting my son now, his child, Angela.

Speaker 4  19:08  
I've been doing this for seven years, so there's a lot of frustrations along the way, and then all of that. You know, my sister and I are almost the same age. We don't have a 10 year age gap. We have an 18 month age gap. So we're, you know, we were always those competitives Growing up, you know, she was always told she was a really pretty one, and I was always told I was a really smart one. And so that, you know, kind of was ingrained in us, just really young, but also because we're the same age, I saw the stumbling blocks that she had that I didn't have. And so ideally, I would love for my nephews, she has three kids, and I would love for them to have been able to grow up with their mom, but it just didn't happen for a lot of reasons. And a lot of her story that's very complicated, and a lot of paths that she chose that were very. Complicated. And I think my biggest frustration is when her decisions interfere with the health and the well being of my nephew, and so when it when it hurts him, that's when I get frustrated. You know, I found myself sometimes she would share stories with him that weren't always like accurate, especially when he was 11, and he came back, his story was very it's very different. He lived with my sister for seven years, and then he lived with paternal grandparents for four years, and then he came to live with me. And because of that, there's a lot of trauma and there's a lot of hurt and there's a lot of brokenness, but there's also a lot of places where you can input some inaccurate information or lies, and so when I would hear him like getting really frustrated with me for things that weren't accurate, that's where my biggest frustrations would come from. But I made a point not to share things with him that you know were adult only conversations, and sometimes she didn't do the same thing, right? You know, she would tell him things that look negative on me, that weren't accurate, or even on my mom, his grandmother, or my other sister. And so it's just it's weird navigating like trying to not damage the relationship that he has with his mother, because it is so important. And my biggest frustrations again, were decisions she made, or people she brought into his life that brought pain or brought heartache or brought things to him that he didn't deserve or he didn't need. And so there are a lot of frustrations, and you know, we've gotten in a lot of arguments, and we'll talk about boundaries. I think that's on here somewhere, but I love her and love just as much we have. We are close. I would say we're even in this group. I'm probably the closest to my sister than anybody else's to their sibling. You know, we still see each other, but it's still it's weird navigating that. And so I cried a whole lot and did a lot of like on my own so that I could make sure that I'm not the one that's damaging a relationship between him and his mother, and so my biggest again, you know, her making decisions that hurt him. There is some resentment that, like, there's frustrations with her, like this, choices she made and the people she brought into his life, that she would have really good moments where she should be getting him back, and then, you know, she would invite somebody into their lives that was negative, and didn't allow that to happen, and that's that was frustrating, but we still try to navigate that.

Dawn Davenport  22:31  
Yeah, yeah, I hear you, Alex, you're the only one who has this experience, so we probably can't go too deep on it. But I wonder, how does it change? It's one thing when it is your sibling and it's your biological niece or nephew you're taking in, but it's another thing if it is your spouse's biological niece or nephew, and that seems to add to me, that seems it could add some complications. Can you talk a little about the issue that it's your spouse's sister who is causing this disruption in your life, and the fact that these kids are more than just a disruption. But right now, we're, we're talking more about the negative, and we're gonna, we will end with some of the joys. Okay,

Speaker 2  23:19  
I think it's a pretty hard relationship to navigate, or she's not my sister, so I don't have that Sister Sister bond. But also, in some ways, it's been easier for me than I think it has been for my husband. My husband is very angry towards her, and he has pulled a lot of resentment towards her for not looking after the boys the way that they should have been, and for a lot of things that happened to them, I am angry about some of those things, but I don't I don't have that background relationship with her that it doesn't seem to affect me in the same way that it does him. I do most of the communicating actually, with her, just because he used to be very close with his sister, but now there's a bit of a rift in there that's formed after the boys came into our care. There was drug use involved, and there was some abuse that happened, and I do most of the communication, just because he has so much anger and resentment left over that he finds it very hard to have conversations with her about even just easy things, like talking about how the boys are doing on their visit. How are things going? He doesn't like to have those conversations with her anymore, just because there's so much hurt behind it that I think he finds it really hard, and even that has made it I have to have hard conversations now with my husband that were things that most people don't have to talk about. So much of our time is spent talking about this relationship between him and his sister, and I think most people don't have to deal with those challenges with their spouses. So it's put me in a lot of really difficult. Situations, and we've had to have some really like, intimate conversations, and I've heard a lot of things about his family, things that we never would have brought up, I think would never have come up if this didn't happen. Some of it good, some of it badge. But yeah, there's so much communication involved and so much hurt that I almost think that I got the easier end of the stick as compared to him. I mean, there's no easy end, but yeah, that's an interesting

Dawn Davenport  25:29  
way to look at it. I can definitely see a resentment of my life is being turned upside down because of your family, that type of thing. I could see that it doesn't sound like it's in your case, but Danny, do you have some thoughts on this?

Speaker 1  25:42  
Yeah, that was, that's a struggle that we've had with my husband. Is when my brother got his wife pregnant, I knew, and maybe I should have been more forthright in saying we will have to adopt this child. This is what's going to happen. They are not capable. I don't think that I know that my husband didn't know that, and he didn't quite understand that, and he had understood that we would probably foster but I it took him a while to be okay and understand that this was moving forward and this was happening. Maybe he thought that my mom would step in, the grandma would step in, I'm not sure, but he definitely was, like, almost taken aback. And again, that kind of like, we're the only person of my brother's side of the family, and then the wife's family that could have taken the child. We're stable enough that we could do that, but it was still that we did not ask for this. We had never planned to adopt any children. We we had our own child. We were wanting to have more, and that was not in our realm. And so all of that coming pretty quickly, because the child was taken into custody with child services like day two of life, and then it was this whole process to to get him over here and to foster him, and then, as we were fostering him, the struggles that came along with that, and then when it got to the point where the rights were severed, and then it was up for adoption, having my husband work through and be okay with becoming the adoptive dad when he had did not plan for that, and that was not what he thought would happen was a big hurdle.

Unknown Speaker  27:24  
I can absolutely see that.

Dawn Davenport  27:27  
Let me pause here for just a moment to tell you about an interactive training that creating a family has created. It can be used as a training or as a support group curriculum. It is as the title says, interactive, meaning there's lots of discussion, but it also was designed to be extremely easy to use for the facilitator or trainer. Everything you need is in the curriculum. Each curriculum comes with a video. The video pauses at times for discussion. In the facilitator guide, we have suggested questions, starter questions for the discussion time. We have a handout specific to that topic and additional resources. It can be used for continuing ed if you need that for your foster parent license. So check it out at parent support groups.org or you can go to creating a family.org website. Hover over the word training and click on Support Group, curriculum. How has it been? Sometimes everybody in the family is 100% okay with you taking the child, but other times, there's people in the family who extended family, not just the child's parents, but extended family, who think that the child should not be living with you. They should be living with their parent, or they should be living with the father or the mother, whomever. Have you faced issues navigating extended families, opinions as to your taking this child, and should the child be with you, or should the child be with someone else, including with their birth family. Alex, I'll start with you on that one.

Speaker 2  29:03  
So most of the family wasn't really aware of the situation that the boys were in. My husband's family isn't particularly close. They would get together about once a year at a cottage, but otherwise they didn't really stay in communication. So the only people in the family that were really aware of the situation that the boys were in was us and the grandparents. Grandparents were totally on board with the boys staying with us. In fact, they kind of wish that it had happened sooner. Things might have actually been easier for the boys if they had had a more stable upbringing, but there's two other brothers on Michael's side of the family. They were actually quite surprised, and we got a little bit of kickback from one of the younger brothers about why, why were we taking the boys? Why weren't they going back? Because the family relationships are complicated, so they they. Will talk to each other sometimes, so it wasn't always the truth that was being told to everybody. Some people had different views of where the boys should live, but I think in the end, especially this summer, we all got together as a family. That was really fun. We all got together as a family, and the boys were happy and they were looked after. And I think a lot of people's opinions changed just once they saw how kids can really thrive once they're in an environment where they're loved and supported instead of neglected. It seemed to have made a big difference to the family. Yeah, yeah.

Dawn Davenport  30:37  
All right. Kenya, thoughts on navigating relationships within the family, extended family, about your taking over the role of raising your niece. No

Speaker 3  30:47  
one had a problem. The only opposition I've dealt with is just from birth mom. She's the only one who, in her mind, is fully capable of taking care of children, and everybody else who's wrong?

Unknown Speaker  31:02  
Yeah, okay, Angela, what about you same

Speaker 4  31:06  
you know, my nephew is actually the second child that was taken out of my sister's care. The first one was raised by my aunt, so his great aunt, so there wasn't a lot of opposition from anybody in our family, or a lot of people questioning why it happened. It

Dawn Davenport  31:23  
might have been thankfulness. Yeah, somebody is stepping forward. Yeah, yeah. More, more so with that more than anything. So Danny, what about in your situation? Mostly,

Speaker 1  31:32  
it's the birth mom and dad that I think struggle with it the most, that they they don't understand that they can't care for a child that, even though the state pulled away rights and explained why, and they had testing and different reasons explained to them, that's where I see most of the the issues is more with like the birth father, my brother just saying, you know, they took him and and I could do it, and I'd Be a good father and and so that's been most of the struggle. I don't know much about the birth mom's family. I think there was some probably contentions there that the child went to our side versus their side. But I don't communicate with them at all. I've never met them or seen them or had any relationship with them, and they were not deemed fit any of them to either foster or adopt the child, so we were really the only option. I think my mom understood that it's more the parents that struggled. Okay. Another

Dawn Davenport  32:34  
issue that I think can happen is when you have existing children in the family, your own child, even though, if you adopt this other child is becoming a legal guardian, they become your child. So I prefer to use the term existing children, or children that are birthed to you that that adds complications. There can be jealousies between the kids. There can be concerns that the behaviors of the child coming into the family who has experienced early life trauma, and often that is expressed through negative behaviors, the fear that these behaviors will rub off on kids that are already in the family. And also, you're bringing in a child who's had a harder early life beginning. And often those kids need more attention and time. But if you have existing kids, then are you cheating your kids by spending extra time with the new child coming in because that child needs it? It gets complicated. Danny, I know I'm going to start with you, because you had a child already in your family when you brought your nephew in. So any thoughts on how the interplay between the children are the time that it takes to be devoted to a child who has experienced trauma and needs extra help, how that plays out, and just in general, in parenting?

Speaker 1  33:51  
Absolutely, I probably won't be the best person for this question. My son, the birth son, and then my adopted son are 16 months apart, and I truly believe that he was meant to be in our family when he came into our house at eight months old, and my other existing son was around two. They became best friends. I know that there is trauma, and I think that we might see that a little bit later on in life, but our adoptive son is so resilient and came to us so young that I think a lot of that trauma is wasn't very evident. He had only had one foster family for the entire time of that two days old, until eight months old, until we got him so he didn't bounce around a lot. He had one connection came to us, and then he connected with my existing son, instantly they were best friends. They're so close in age, we've so far haven't seen behaviors that are rubbing off. So just a very resilient child, which really was a great testament to me that he was meant to be in our family. They're so much more like brothers than cousins than you would ever know. Yes,

Dawn Davenport  35:01  
Alex, you have, well, I think your son was actually born after your two nephews joined. So it changes things. But have you felt the having to spend a whole lot of extra time? Do you have resentments? Or does your husband have resentments for the time you're spending on your nephews, and do you feel like it takes away from the son that was born to you?

Speaker 2  35:24  
Um, they because he was born into it, and he's so young, he's only one. I don't think we have seen that yet. What we have noticed is when the boys go to visit their mother on the weekend that he's alone. He's used to living in a family of five, and then all of a sudden, the two boys that he plays with all the time disappear for a couple of days, and then they come back. He's starting to notice these things. And he at first it started where he would ask for them at breakfast time, and then now he goes into their room to look for them, but now it's almost like he enjoys the time that he spends with just us, because he doesn't get that, because there's the two other boys, sure, but we, we are noticing some behavioral issues with the older child now, and he is taking up a lot of our Time, and he needs some support. Now, some of it's trauma, some of it is probably from drug use during the pregnancy, but we we don't know exactly what happened during the pregnancy, so I don't think that there's resentment, but it does take away time from our littlest one, but I think it's too early now to see how that relationship is going to turn out and how things will look later.

Dawn Davenport  36:45  
Did you know, or do you remember that creating a family has 12 free courses brought to you by The jockey, being Family Foundation. These courses are self paced. You take them by yourself. They're one hour. Leading Experts are giving the courses, they're on topics relevant to parenting. You can find them at Bitly slash JBf support. That's B, I T, dot, l1, slash JBf support. All right. Now, turning to the two single when they got your niece and your nephew, I wanted to hear from Genya and Angela about being single. I think both of you are actually married now, but being single and all of a sudden having, and Angela's case, an 11 year old and Genia, in your case, a six year old. So that's a huge difference. I think it's a huge difference for married couples as well. But I think there are some unique challenges with being single and all of a sudden, the parent to a 11 year old. Let's start with you. Angela lickers, you he was 11. Your nephew was 11. So what were some of the challenges for being single and all of a sudden, the mom to an 11 year old? A lot.

Speaker 4  37:53  
There were a lot of challenges. Gosh, it just, it is so nice now that I'm doing this with my husband just being able to have somebody to pick him up when you know maybe School's not going to last the whole day because of decisions that he made, things like that. But I remember feeling really isolated being a single parent and taking on an 11 year old that had a lot of complex needs, because, again, his story has a lot of a lot of trauma and a lot of healing to come from. And so I remember being in a school meeting, and he was really struggling at the school that he was in, and there it wasn't, you know, it wasn't very trauma informed, and there were a lot of things going on, and their solution was to have me homeschool him and do like, an hour a week at the school, and I said, I can't do that like I'm a single parent working a full time job. We have to be able to live in our home. But you know, if I was married, maybe we could have made a decision like that. But just my mind in that moment, anytime I think about being single, I think about that moment where I felt completely helpless because I could not just homeschool them. You know, that was the solution. Why don't you just homeschool and so it was like decisions like that, where people are so used to talking to people that have two adults in the home, that it was just like this foreign concept for them. But then also, you know, I am married now, I did travel that road to getting married being a single parent of a child with complex needs and trauma, and also navigating all the family stuff too, that was probably a little bit more complicated, because you just want to be upfront, because he has more needs, and he has a lot of my attention, because I want what's best for him. And so finding a lot of guys that are, you know, willing to take on an 11 year old with complex needs, was very complicated, but I love my husband so much because that's how I knew that he was the one, because he instantly knew that he was a part of me and that they were like he was dating a unit instead of just one single person. I. And he was willing to take it slow. We didn't tell anybody in my family that we were even dating for like, six months, because I didn't want to bring another person into my nephew's life that would leave. And so he was willing to be, you know, a hidden boyfriend for six months. Yeah,

Dawn Davenport  40:15  
I can see that, Genia, what was your experience?

Speaker 3  40:18  
I was just wrapped in love and care by my church family and my coworkers when they found out that Nadia was being an added person to my life, I tell you, I just had support on every level. I was able to take Nadia to work with me. I didn't have any issues navigating being single and two. I mean, my whole life has been a single parent. I have a 29 year old. I don't think I shared that. So I have a 29 year old. So I've always been a single parent, up until, matter of fact, next weekend is my year anniversary. Congratulations. So you know, our situation is very unique in that my husband has twin boys, so we we have, or we could write a book with the things that we have go on in our house when they come, because that's a dynamic that exists now with us. They come one weekend a month. So, you know, and Nadia, she is so used to having her own everything. So when they come, it annoys her.

Dawn Davenport  41:21  
Yeah, she doesn't want to share Yeah, and she makes it

Speaker 3  41:23  
known that it annoys her. But to answer your question, I didn't have any problems. I'm so grateful that my church family, my co workers, they rallied around me more than my family did. They gave me a baby shower when I got legal guardianship, they gave me a baby shower on my job. Yeah, and I still have that support to this day. If I call them and I say she needs to be picked up whatever, people from my church, people I met through foster care class, they're on it, like, where's she at? I go get her. Where she need to go. I go get her. You need some time. I'll take her. I'm telling you it's amazing

Dawn Davenport  42:02  
you are fortunate. That is wonderful. Have any of you faced putting off having children of your own or having additional kids of your own because of the commitment that you've taken on to raise your niece or your nephew? Since this is an audio I'm just going to say everybody is shaking their heads. So I will say we do hear that from others, that because I have taken on my niece or my nephews, I can't have another child because financially, we can't afford it, or emotionally, we our bandwidth is full because we are taking care of these kids, or we need to postpone. I thought that by 35 I would be having a child, but I am not, because we're raising a child or two kids, and we need to wait, either financially or because of the emotional time commitment, and that can cause resentment, and it's and it's real. Danny, did you want to add something to this? Yes,

Speaker 1  43:05  
on the other side of that, I don't think anyone should ever adopt because of infertility issues. I think that shouldn't quite be the reason to do it. Have a degree. But we had my first, yeah, we had my first child, and then we weren't able to have any more and it was just a blessing to me that we were able to adopt my nephew, because we really do feel like I had mentioned before, they were meant to be brothers, and it's been beautiful. So even through the sadness and hardship of infertility, there was a wonderful blessing and a silver lining in this situation that we didn't really ask for, but has been a blessing.

Speaker 5  43:43  
Angela, did you have thoughts on this? Yeah, I

Speaker 4  43:46  
would say that I don't think I naturally like it was a conscious decision to do all of that, but I think because of the time of life that I took custody of my nephew or took placement of my nephew, it definitely delayed a lot of things, I was not like even thinking about dating for the first, you know, two or three years of him being in my care, because so much of my attention went towards him. And so, you know, I thought maybe mid 30s, we would be thinking about that. But, you know, it just didn't happen. So I didn't consciously think that this is going to happen, but, like, because of when I did and all of that, I mean, I definitely want to change it, because I want to pour everything into him that he needs so that he can be a healthy adult. But it definitely delayed it.

Dawn Davenport  44:33  
Sure, how could it not? You know, from that standpoint, even though you're not saying it and consciously doing it, if you're spending your time raising your nephew, it absolutely changes what you have time to do, the availability of time to meet people and to be thinking about developing your life in other ways. Has it been a challenge not knowing how long the kids are? Going to stay with you, and you may have to think back, because I think all of you have some degree of permanency now. Alex, starting with you, has that been a challenge?

Speaker 2  45:09  
It was a huge challenge for us. They came into care the end of covid. Everything was delayed in the courts due to covid, so the process with Child Protective Services took, I think it was a year longer than it was supposed to were they staying with you during that time? They stayed with us. During the whole time, we didn't know what the decision of the courts was going to be. The parents were both fighting to get them back. So when we put the four year old in school. We didn't know if he was going to be staying at that school or if we should be setting up supports for him. Where we are, is he going to be taken back? You know, next month, when it's supposed to be over, it was a period of uncertainty. We didn't know what, like we would be talking to the teacher, and they would be like, well, maybe we can make this plan to do this. I'm like, we can make that plan, but I can't actually commit to it, because I don't know what's going to be happening in their future. We just went with giving them love and support the best way we could every day, and we just ran with it. And then when the court made their decision and they said, Would you like to offer a parental plan to the court to keep them? That's when we kind of knew like that. We had some permanence and some certainty, and we started making more plans, but it was a really long time before we got we didn't get custody until this summer, and we had had them since 2022 so it was a long time of uncertainty, and especially the school is very happy about it now, actually, because we know that he's going to be there for a long time, and we can start setting up those supports and making sure that he's learning properly and getting everything he needs. So it's been a big relief, actually, yeah,

Dawn Davenport  46:55  
I can absolutely see that, Angela, did you also experience uncertainty as to how long you would be having your nephew so and it was that a problem

Speaker 4  47:05  
with my nephew, not so much because of the circumstances when he came to our home. Every case looks a little bit different. But with our with our youngest, our newest kinship placement, we were supposed to be a TSP, a temporary safety placement for three months, and we're at month 27 and we now officially have custody, and the cases closed, but that one was definitely very tricky, because we did start as a tsp or a temporary safety placement and then moved in just a different path. But, you know, getting her because she was young, she was a year old when she came to our home, and it was like, do we get her into the dentist when she got to about two years old, getting, like, the all these different things, and she was at a daycare. And I was like, I not the biggest fan of the daycare that she was at, but it was the one that had the openings. And I'm like, do I move her and have another change just for her to move back to her mom and things like that. So there was definitely a lot of stress around her, just because the situation was definitely not as clear as it was when I took in my nephew.

Dawn Davenport  48:14  
I think rather than hitting Kenya and Danny up for their thoughts on uncertainty, I'd like to spend our last bit of time talking about some of the joys. I always hesitate when we have a show that's based on challenges, because I worry that I'm not trying to be both side ism here, but I do think it's important to balance the challenges, because there are some real joys. But we wanted to spend most of the time talking about the challenges, because that's the unique part I think, of being an aunt caring for a niece or a nephew. But now I do want to talk about some of the joys. Danny, I'm going to start with you. You've already mentioned a couple of them, with the boys, relationship with each other. Any other additional joys that you would say as being an aunt raising or now you're a mom, since it's an adopted the adoption is taking place, but originally an aunt raising your brother's son,

Speaker 1  49:08  
just more love. I mean, a mother and a child is just beautiful. And to have two boys that love each other and that play with each other all day long, and then love and cuddle on me. It's just more love. It's it's a beautiful thing. The other option would be that he would have been adopted by somebody outside the family, and we wouldn't have ever had a relationship with him, or it would have been very difficult to have a relationship. So now I get to have a relationship with my nephew slash son, and see that beautiful bond growing between them and in our family, and seeing him thrive, and all the beautiful blessings that come with that

Dawn Davenport  49:48  
Kenya, some of the joys, the

Speaker 3  49:50  
joys of just watching Nadia develop, and literally thinking about the things I put my mom through that I think I'll ever see again. Yeah, because I had a boy, and now seeing Nadia or experience her put me through those same things I put my mom through. I have to chuckle. I have to laugh because I'm like, Lord, I did not see this coming. So it's, it's, it's a joy, because I find myself going back to my childhood as I watch her, and I'm like, Whoa. This is amazing. The joy of seeing her develop and just how we are so much alike, like she'll tell me in a minute, let's go shopping. What shopping? So I love it, man, just I'm telling you like I started, we're living our best life. So the joy of seeing her develop, do things together, experience things together, and even push my limits to what I thought I couldn't do. I love it.

Speaker 5  50:51  
Alex, what about you? Well, I, for the longest time thought

Speaker 2  50:56  
I would have no kid, and then in the period of six months, I had three, and my house is full. It is full and it is noisy. And I don't think that I would have it any other way. Those two little boys are only a year apart, and they are in love with each other. They they sit there and they talk and they laugh. These are your two youngest. Yes, yeah, they're one and two in a couple of months, two and three, and they talk and they laugh and they chase each other. They have so much fun. Our house is a rocket and the old boy, he is reading and he is smart and he is thriving. And I don't think that would have happened if they hadn't come into our life. So it's really nice to watch them grow and see them become the people that they should be. We love them. It's been the greatest thing in our life.

Unknown Speaker  51:51  
Angela, last word yours.

Speaker 4  51:55  
I just am already getting emotional thinking about I think my biggest joy is seeing like healing come because of like my nephew went through a whole lot, and seeing the glimmers of him healing and him coming out of what he's gone through has been like the biggest joys. And recently watching him teach our youngest things that he's learned as coping skills, as ways to better himself. Like last night, she was, like, overstimulated, and I was doing these circles on her hand to calm her down. And he was he came in, and he started to do, like, teach her some things. And so seeing that, knowing where he came from and where he is now, has been the biggest joy to see him grow and develop and become a man, and see him do great things and like he's going to college, and right now, we are getting out of high school by the skin of our teeth, and that doesn't matter, because as long as he gets that diploma, we can get into college. And so like seeing him do great things coming from the hardness that he came from earlier on in life is the biggest joy.

Dawn Davenport  53:03  
Well, thank you so much. Angela, bolo, Kenya, Newkirk, Alex faith and Danny wickley for talking with us today about the challenges as well as the joys of taking in your niece or your nephew. I truly have enjoyed this conversation. There isn't much talk about the uniqueness of aunts and uncles raising nieces and nephews, and so I really appreciate your time before you leave. Let me tell you about one of our partner agencies who has supported both this podcast as well as all the mission of creating a family that is hopscotch adoptions. They are a Hague accredited international adoption agency placing children from Armenia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Georgia, Ghana, Guyana, Morocco, Pakistan, Serbia and Ukraine. They specialize in the placement of children with Down Syndrome and other special needs, and they also do a lot of kinship adoptions. They place kids throughout the US and offer home study services and post adoption services to residents of North Carolina and New York THE.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai