Surviving Childhood Trauma and Succeeding in Life: Panel of Former Foster Youth

We talk with a panel of former foster youth about their stories and what helped them survive their trauma and succeed in life.

In this episode, we cover:

• What were the two most important things in helping you heal and ultimately thrive after your years in foster care and early life trauma?
• Was their one or two people in your life who helped you overcome? What did they do to help?
• Why do you think you became a survivor when others in similar positions did not?
• If you are parents, how has your trauma from your early years impacted your parenting?
• While you are successful and are “survivors” do you still carry some of the baggage from your childhood?
• What advice would you give foster, adoptive, and kinship parents to be most helpful to the children in their care?

This podcast is produced  by www.CreatingaFamily.org. We are a national non-profit with the mission to strengthen and inspire adoptive, foster & kinship parents and the professionals who support them. Creating a Family brings you the following trauma-informed, expert-based content:

• Weekly podcasts
• Weekly articles/blog posts
• Resource pages on all aspects of family building

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Transcript

Please pardon the errors, this is an automatic transcription.
0:00  
Welcome, everyone to Creating a Family talk about adoption and foster care. I'm Dawn Davenport. I am the host of this show, as well as the director of a nonprofit creating a family.org. Today we're going to be talking about surviving childhood trauma and succeeding in life. We're going to be talking with four former foster youth, about their experience and what helped them to thrive, succeed, thrive, survive. We'll be talking with Rhonda Sciortino, Justin Black, Alexis Lindermann Black, and Diana Moshier. And the impetus for this show came from a comment we received from one of our listeners saying, I realized trauma is important. And thank you so much for covering it. But you always knew there's going to be about there, right? But with all this focus on trauma, we're left feeling hopeless. Do people ever survive are people are people who are in the foster care system? Are they able to make it in life? Or are we are they doomed, and we as parents really can't do anything about it. And I thought about her comment for a long time and really took it to heart. We've been focusing a lot more this year on resiliency and, and things such as that because it is important that parents realize that and foster youth, both former as well as current foster youth realize that, yes, trauma is real. But there is a way that we can you guys can prove it, we can if not overcome, at least put it in its place and succeed. So with that, what I'd like to do is start to hear your story, your foster care story, because I think that will put everything into perspective. So Rhonda, let's start with you, Rhonda Sciortino. So tell us about why are you on this panel. Tell us about what brought you to foster care and and your experience there.

2:05  
Okay, Dawn? Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. My mother left me with a neighbor and asked the neighbor to babysit while she went shopping. But she didn't go shopping, Her clothes were packed, her car was loaded, and she moved out of state. And so back in those days, if a social worker could find a biological family member, it was pretty much done. And so I was placed with my mother's parents. He was mentally ill, which is putting it nicely. And my grandmother was an alcoholic and a drug addict. And so it was a chaotic and abusive childhood. We lived in a little shack that didn't have, you know, we didn't have electricity, a lot of the time. There was no shower. It was it was kind of difficult. We didn't have a lot of food. And so I was there. For most of the first 16 years of my life, there was one point in time when the social worker came by. And I had two black guys. And that was a little bit more difficult for my grandfather to explain than all the other injuries prior. And so that was when the social worker put me in the back of her car to go stay with some people. I didn't know I was going into foster care. And, and I cannot tell you the names of those people. But I just went to stay with these people. And it was the very first time that I had ever seen a clean house. And it was the very first time that I had ever seen a refrigerator full of food. I thought I didn't I didn't know such a thing existed. I'd never seen a shower. It was just amazing. As I look back on it now I think oh my goodness. I mean, what must I have been like with those people? They had so much food so that so the foster mom kept a bowl of like m&ms or something. And every time I would walk past the m&ms, I would scoop some up. Because you know, I thought that she didn't know I was the only kid in the home. And so no sooner would I steal her m&ms and she would just refill the ball and and so the one conversation I remember with those people because I wasn't there for very long. But the foster father said something to me that stayed with me. It has stayed with me my whole life and it has really guided my life. I was throwing a temper tantrum on their white linoleum floor. And you know, when a child throws a temper tantrum, it means they they they feel safe. And so I finally could let all of this out. And so I couldn't do that. In the presence of my grandparents who, you know, would burden me with cigarettes and disciplined me with a skillet of hot oil. And so here I am throwing a tantrum on the kitchen floor. And the lady, I remember her standing there. And she's just kind of wringing her hands, she didn't know what to do. And the foster father came to the doorway and said, young lady, you were put here for a reason. And you better be about finding out what it is. And I'm like, I'm like seven or eight years old, I had no idea what he was talking about. And fast forward. I was 27 years old, sitting at my desk, in the insurance office where I worked. And I opened up an envelope of thank you notes from children, and the CEO of Hillview acres children's home, telling me that what I had done, help them keep the doors open of the children's home. And I remembered the words of that foster father from 20 years before telling me that there was a purpose for my life. And I've been seeking that purpose ever since I quit my job. And I started my own insurance organization that was dedicated solely to protecting and defending the good people in organizations that take care of abused children. And that's what I did right up until I wrote my first book, which was actually supposed to be a letter to a foster girl, 17 year old girl making wrong decisions at 100 miles an hour. And now I'm on my 15th book. So that's my story. Okay, thank

6:37  
you. We'll come back to that. All right. Next up, Justin, Justin Black, can you tell us your connection to foster care?

6:46  
No, of course, of course. So again, thank you so much for having us on the show, Dawn, we definitely appreciate it. And for me, my process or journey and the system started at nine years old, or even I will say before, then, you know, my family on both my mom my dad's side, deal with histories of drug abuse deal with histories of domestic violence in their family, which became generational. Before I was born generational with their parents with drug abuse, sometimes on my mom's side, and domestic violence on my dad's side. So this is something that was generationally practiced on both sides of my family, and kind of left me in the middle of things. So mental health issues going to unresolved for generations in my family. And nine years old, you know, I found myself with as the youngest of five siblings, my 18 year old sister pregnant, my 14 year old brother had a child on the way and my 11 year old, older brother, and all of us kind of lived in abandoned home with me and my mom, my mom and my dad, all of us lived in an abandoned home in Detroit. And we're in the process of trying to figure out alright, what's the next step. And the reason why we're in this situation is because we were on the run from Child Protective Services. And Child Protective Services had grown familiar with our living situation, in our previous home of regularly not having food and water. And, you know, the living conditions that we were living in with my mom substance abuse, and just the environment that we grew up in. And we are on the runner from Child Protective Services. And we went back to our old neighborhood that we lived in and living in abandoned house for, I would say, March, no 2006, from about October to March. And you know, living in an abandoned house in the winter is extremely brutal. So as you can imagine, so in Detroit, right, in Detroit, so his his Michigan weather we're talking about. So thinking about that, and as the spring kind of came around, I think my mom, you know, my dad was like, you know, we want to fix the house, we're gonna make sure it's good and everything, so you guys have somewhere to live somewhere safe. And it's just never really worked out for whatever reason. And during that time, you know, I lost a lot of trust in my parents. And I felt like I wasn't protected by them. And eventually, at nine years old, I was released into the foster care system. And my myself and my older brother, who was 11 at the time, me and him went together into the foster care system. And we live with our oldest brother at the time, who had his own apartment lived on his own and saying care of himself. And I believe that he wanted to be there for us to make sure we weren't just entering the system, just with with strangers at the time, but being he was only maybe 2728 years old. You know, I think he more or less had good intentions, but it didn't work out, unfortunately. So after two years, we moved with my aunt for about four or five years and from there we moved again to move with my brother's best friend parents for maybe stayed there about eight months. And then from there, you know, I was on the fence of going to detention center. As you may know, a lot of youth who don't have anywhere to go, they move into detention centers, because there's just not anywhere for them to go. So I was in his process of possibly being in that situation. And from there, you know, I talked to my social worker, and she said that there's a home outside of Detroit, and Southfield, Michigan, where it was a group home were four boys, a maximum of four boys, and there was an open slot for me to stay there. And she said, it was the perfect situation where, you know, it was funded by the church, and had mentors from the church, you know, just a bunch of amazing people surrounding this group home that funding it, supporting it, and it will be an amazing opportunity for me to stay. And during this time, you know, I had relationships with my biological family and my parents and dealing with so much worthlessness because they're my entire time and carried it never lived more than like, 2025 minutes away from me, but I didn't really feel that love and support from them. So you know, I was really feeling hopeless and hopeless at this time. But my social worker encouraged me to go into the home and really boosted my confidence who I was, you know, I wanted to go to college. But at the time, I had like a 2.1 GPA. That's maybe being nice, I probably had a 1.8 or something like

11:19  
that. But you were rounding up. Yeah.

11:23  
So terrible GPA and not doing well in school. And as my home situation started to collapse, my academic life starts to collapse as well, just following suit. So everything kind of collapsing around me. And now I'm in this environment where I started to have more people who had confidence in me. You know, in my home, I lived in with my brother's best friend, parents, they I brought home like a 2.0 GPA. And they told me that, you know, this is better than I thought you do. So, with that in mind, I didn't have any confidence in myself, and I started to intentionally not do good because nobody really cared. So being in an environment where people actually cared, you know, it was it was helpful for me to really start believing in myself, and not only just work hard for me, but work hard for the people around me. So, which led me to going into college and my freshman year and meeting this amazing person that I now call my wife. So

12:14  
well, that's a good segue into that person you now call your wife, Alexis Linderman. Black, as Justin said, they are married. And, Alexis, you are you also have your own story about foster care. So tell us yours.

12:29  
Yeah, absolutely. And that was actually something that did bring us closer together, because we could understand with our shared experiences, and help us kind of work through that and even heal together in a lot of ways. So I would say for myself, I entered foster care at 13. Before that, I lived with my biological mother until she actually committed suicide when I was six years old, and then I went and lived with my biological father, who then had sole custody. And he was physically sexually emotionally abusive for about eight years, until it got so bad to where it was visible to other people. And, and then I was finally taken away from his home when I was 13. And I went and live with his brother. So it was my uncle. And they were also emotionally immensely abusive. So I really didn't have a chance to heal from even what I dealt with my biological father until pretty much college because to add on top of it, I entered into an abusive relationship at 13 that lasted till 22. So it was a lot of compound and trauma that I was really dealing with throughout high school. And then there was always with felt like something dramatic every single year of high school where my freshman year I had to testify against my biological father and my sophomore year, we had a house fire, so we had to move out. And my junior year my godfather passed away, which was my closest family member. And then also my junior year, I was kicked out of my aunt and uncle's house, which in the moment being kicked out felt like you know, my world is crashing down where am I going to go I had all these threats that I could be placed at a state or with horrible family and all these things, but actually ended up being the best thing that's ever happened to me because then I met my foster now adoptive parents, so it was my forever home. And that's actually you know, that completely changed my life and every way that I view the world I view myself and I know I wouldn't be married and where I am right now without them and I know we're gonna get to that in a little bit. But I I always have to throw them in there is their nominal people. They changed my life.

14:36  
Okay, well, excellent. And what age was that when you were placed with him and foster 1717 Gotcha. Okay. Excellent. Diana Moser. Thank you for being so patient. Tell us your story.

14:49  
My story well, well, I don't come from foster care. I do come from childhood trauma and succeeding. From what I've been through there. Honestly. It kind of is from child abuse started young age five to age 15, sexually molested, physically abused and mentally abused throughout my childhood. And then, you know, take that into high school, and then you have, you know, dating violence, and then you take it into the workplace. And then the workplace was sexual assault, and sexual harassment, and that lasted, you know, well into my 20s, and 30s. And, honestly, as a realtor in my 40s, so that has also happened and 50s, I've learned to navigate it much better now, going through all of the years. But my story is just surviving from everything that I've gone through and finding the little wins to get every little milestone. And you know, it's not a perfect science by any means. But if you can find a win at five years old when your dad is molesting you, and take that winner, just tuck it away. That's kind of how you, you roll that into the next one. And, you know, again, like I said, you don't win every time. But the ones that you win, if you hold on to that, you know, they exist. So that's kind of what's the basis of my story is and, you know, little strategies along the way that I've always say, right, and those my four F's that I that I, you know, have what's your I live to this day, it's family, friends, fitness, and funny, always funny. So every single day, one of those hit, and it just keeps you in a great space. But it does turn that into success, because you learn how to navigate through difficulty.

16:36  
Well, that's a great segue into what I want to talk about now are, the number actually doesn't matter. But let's say to, or if you're feeling inspired more of the most important things that have helped you heal, and ultimately thrive after your years either in foster care and or early life trauma. Justin, let's start with you.

17:01  
Yeah, so you said what helped us heal as we transition into adulthood and early on in our life?

17:08  
Well, and ultimately thrive in your life, what? What helped you heal from the trauma you experience through the multiple moves that you had throughout your life and trauma and neglect, and witnessing violence and things such as that? Yeah, of

17:23  
course, of course. So it's a very hard process. And I think that first and foremost, I, I think in this environment, a lot of people always ask myself and Alexis, what was the light switch that went off for you, or that just made you say, Oh, let me change my life. And there wasn't exactly a light switch or anything. But it was it's a process and even to this day, is a daily process that takes place that helps me keep my myself on the right track. And it helps me to go in the right direction. And one of the things that drives me and drives us in the right direction is number one, having grace and mercy for the people who wronged us in life. So I had to understand that first. You know, when it came to my mom, I didn't know until I was an adult, maybe around like 20 years old, maybe 19, that I talked to my brother. And my brother, you know, he had a situation where he went back to live with my mom. And this is maybe a couple years before she passed away. But he went back to live with her for, you know, he was struggling and went back to live with her. And they just had some of the most authentic, I guess, conversations that they ever had in life. And she talked a bit about her abuse growing up and how she went to live with her stepmom. And she was molested. And she was tortured. And she was sexually abused. And her perspective, as she raised us, and even though raising us wasn't in the best environment, she we weren't like beaten by her. We weren't tortured the way she was tortured. And we weren't going through some of the things that she was going through with sexual abuse. So she saw it in her eyes as this is a lot better than what I went through growing up. So you have a good life, or you're doing okay, which it wasn't exactly that, but she never had the opportunity or chance to heal from her trauma and things that she went through. So she naturally passed down some of those things to us to where even though we're living in poverty and had some crazy situations growing up, you know, it wasn't maybe as bad or compared to or our normal that she'd grown up with. So seeing it from that perspective, I had to have a lot of grace and my mom that maybe she didn't have a chance to understand what, you know, a healthy way of living looked like and I had to take it on myself to say alright, as I have children, and as we create our own family, I can have to be intentional about not passing on those things to my child just because I survived poverty, or I survived abuse or whatever it may be. I shouldn't force my child to go through that as well. And another thing that has helped me heal and become who I am today is understanding that I was emotion really attached to my parents in the sense that if they didn't come to my football games, if they didn't visit me on my birthday, if they didn't do something for me, or call me or whatever it may be, then I will feel like my birthday isn't even important anymore. You know, this thing that I've accomplished, if they don't validate me, it isn't important. But I had to get out of the mindset that I need external validation for the things going on in my life, and see myself as important not because I've been validated by my mom, my dad, not even my partner. But what I'm doing is important because it's creating an impact. And it's making other people feel good, who needs to help and support but it's also supporting me in my mind, body and soul. And it's bringing glory to God at the end of the day. So I had to understand that from a different perspective. And it, it had to constantly remind myself of that, because I am still to this day sometimes look for external validation from people. So yeah, I can understand that.

20:55  
I hope you

20:56  
are feeling as encouraged and inspired as I am. In listening to this episode, I want to let you know that there are 12 free online courses available after creating a family.org online Parent Training Center. And they are thanks to our partners, the chocolate baking Family Foundation who are supporting that you go to Bitly, slash JBS support to find these courses, and that's bi T dot our Y, slash J. B F support. Rhonda, what are some of the important things that have helped you heal and ultimately thrive after your years of trauma? Foster Care? Multiple moves, abuse? horrible abuse? Yeah. Jesus.

21:49  
All answer Jesus, my faith in God, those those foster parents that I was with, like I said, for a very short time, they took me to church, and they introduced me to Jesus, and I've had that faith that has seen me through everything since. And then I would say, my first job, I got my first job when I was 15 years old, and with every single paycheck came greater self esteem. And so I felt better about myself. And I felt like I was providing for myself, and then that sort of moved me to seek emancipation. So I emancipated when I was 16 years old, I became the youngest licensed insurance agent in the state of California when I was 17. And good, and I bought my first house when I was 19. And my first rental when I was 21. And it it all started though with with faith in God and, and the seed of a belief that I actually had some worth and value. And because if you don't feel that you have, you know, worth and value as a person, you probably won't try to you know, get that job you probably won't have the courage to try to you know, take that next step and growth and so for me the the faith and the belief in God's Word that that I had some value was was transformational for me

23:20  
in that first job made you feel like you've had you could affect you had control you could affect how your life turned out, which is an interesting you know, that idea of control is powerful. Diana, you've you've shared your four F's, but can you and you may just that may be your answer that the things that were most important to helping you heal and ultimately Thrive anything you want to add to that.

23:45  
I remember one of the questions you know, early on was, was it one or two people in your life that helps you overcome and you know, when I look back you know, I had the friends this is why the four apps are so important but there was friends in my life that I allowed me to like my next door neighbor was my best friend he was five years older than me but he was literally my best friend my a friend of the street they allowed me to like the girlfriend down the street to spend the night to escape for just those you know maybe it's one night maybe it's two nights same thing in high school friends that had no idea they were such an integral part in me healing because I got to see like when Rhonda alluded to it you know you went to your first foster home you're like a fridge full of food what is happening here? How does this a shower what it what is this goodness you know and so when you see what a normal you know ish family dynamic kind of looks like it's really healing and and then you know, you password so when I had a boyfriend, his mom, and I've said this to one another talk that I did with Rhonda actually where she taught me number one, she taught me how to count to 10 in German, which I can still do to this day and I did it Well, the second thing she taught me that she was just stuck with me really was, if you soak fish in milk, it takes out that, you know, sometimes that little fishy kind of smell ish, whatever

25:12  
these are, it sounds so tiny or so

25:17  
abstract, I guess you could say. But, you know, it's these kinds of things that made me laugh that made me feel valued. That made me feel cared for, you know, and so you take those, and you keep going. My first job, one of my first jobs, Ron Fitzgerald, who who has since passed, he lived in Houston. But that was that sexual assault moment in sexual harassment, it was his Vice President, this was the big dog of the company. And who had pinned me up against a wall next to the watercooler. And, you know, he was putting hands on me and trying to get me to do things. And I was able to get away went to Rhonda, next morning, he fired him on the spot, no questions asked, get out of the year done.

26:04  
He believed you.

26:05  
Yes. People who protected me along the way, my next employer did something similar and just in protecting and guiding me and what business administration looks like. And so you know, it's just those helpful, who along the way that gives you that their little wins to me, they're little bits and pieces of value that you, you take in confidence, you know, and then you're like, wow, I can do this. I am resilient, I am strategic, I'm courageous, and all the things, you know, and so you just kind of you know, and that's kind of along the way, and how that kind of got the ball rolling, I guess, I guess,

26:41  
Alexis, for you, what are a couple of the most important things that helped you heal, and ultimately brought you here today?

26:52  
Yeah, I would definitely say the fact that I was surrounded with several people who believed in me, even when I didn't believe in myself. And really, as was mentioned, you know, those people that were willing to give you guidance, were willing to kind of look out for you and provide that safe space for you, when, when maybe you didn't have that at home. And I and I can think of several people it's hard to, it's hard to always, you know, pinpoint down to a couple things. But I would say definitely, you know, the individuals in my life that looked out for me, but then also my own accountability within my healing journey. Nobody's going to heal for me, I have to heal for myself. And so I had to make sure that, you know, even though counseling was court ordered, or when I graduated high school, and I didn't have to go anymore, I still was intentional on going to counseling, I still was intentional on finding and seeking these healthier relationships. Because, again, my healing is my own accountability in this and nobody's going to do that for me.

27:50  
Was it a therapist that helped him it's such a wise thing to fit as such, it sounds simple, but it is so deep and so hard the understanding that we are responsible for our growth, and that we can't, we can't outsource that. But there are people who never learned that was that through therapy that you learned that?

28:11  
I think that was more of in life lessons, just being in that abusive relationship, and the fact that, you know, I allowed it to go on for eight years, and several other things that was happening around me. And why was it happening? Why was I allowing these things to continue for so long? And it was because I wasn't taking that accountability for my own actions? What can I do better? How can I make different decisions and get out of these relationships or get out of the circumstances? And that ultimately came down to my own autonomy and decision making process. And so I figured that if I wanted to change, I had to be the one to do it. Because no matter who I called to cry to and would listen to me, I had to make that decision. And nobody could do that for me.

28:54  
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's wise, wise words. Are you enjoying today's podcast? If so, would you tell a friend about it, what you've learned, both on this show and any of the others you've listened to at the creating a family.org podcast, we love strengthening and inspiring more families. And by doing so we hope to help you raise strong kids. You can help us by spreading the word about this podcast. Thank you. You know, we have we use the same fact that creating a family we have a magnet that we give out at meetings and at conferences and stuff and and I will paraphrase, but it's basically the power of one you know that it takes one person who steps up for a child, and we hope that children have more than one but but one is enough. We need one. And so I want to talk about that. Who was the one if you had one, and maybe that isn't or who were the ones I guess that would be making it plural will be better. So let's see die. Anna, you mentioned that there were a number of people that you've already mentioned specifically. And and I think is it? Is it correct to say that it wasn't somebody in your family, extended family or in your family? Who was able to be that one for you? Is that correct?

30:17  
Not the what? Well, it's, that's interesting, because my grandmother, who was my ultimate hero, just because she was the one person in our family, outside of our home, who I could, you know, kind of escape to, who believed me, who asked me questions, couldn't do anything about it. But,

30:39  
but her belief means something just being believed, is huge.

30:44  
It was huge. So she, she, and she was my, I mean, she was the one who took, of course, gave me the love for Disneyland. So I gotta I've been to Disneyland, you know, for the past 53 years, well, twice a year, every year for 53 years other than when they were closed. But she, she just always made a safe place for me and you know, safe places. That is a big deal is big word. For me. I'm a realtor. And part of what I say all the time is I help people find their safe place. And it's because of that, it's just because all of those lessons along the way. And she she basically gave me that safe place, I stayed in her house for summers, and, you know, any chance I could get, and you know, she could come out and so, so I would, I would still go back, even though there were, you know, the, the friends along the way, the employers along the way, the boyfriends mom along the way, my grandmother was my steady person.

31:42  
She was there, Alexis, who was your one or ones,

31:47  
it was definitely more than just one single individual in my life, I think it does take that one person to plant the seed. But then it takes other multiple individuals to nurture that going forward. And so for me, it was my godparents, and specifically, my grandfather's name is Uncle Giles. And my biological father always said, like, college is a waste of money, don't go and just would kind of poop on all my dreams, and all these things. And then I would go to my godfather, and he would say, you know, the University of Michigan would be lucky to have you and phrase things like that, where it's like, people will be lucky to have you. And you can do whatever you want, and, you know, reach the stars, all these things like he wouldn't be the one to plant the seed even, even when I didn't see that for years. And he passed away. So he never actually saw, you know, the things that I was able to accomplish. But, you know, he did plant the seed, and then moving forward with my adoptive parents with my with my adoptive mother, Kim. She definitely, you know, believes in me, and she calls me and will say like, you know, no matter what you accomplished, I'll still love you, and you're still my daughter. And you know, it's things like that, that still, you know, makes you feel loved and validated. Even though it's like you. I think all kids, you know, we always want the love and validation from our parents, we want to a lot of times succeed for them and make them proud. And so for her to say something like that was really special.

33:16  
Yeah. I'm smiling. And as you say it so yes, Rhonda, how about you? Were you lucky enough to have a one or a ones in your life?

33:27  
Yes, absolutely. Well, first of all, the foster parents whose names I don't know. Second of all, I would say that a 14 year old girl changed my life saved my life. The very first day of high school, she was spinning in her chair saying, Hi, my name is Janet, what's your name? And she did that with me. And I realized when she did that, that she treated me exactly the same way as she treated every other kid that she did that with that day. And I knew then when she made eye contact with me, I realized that many people didn't, because I was very hard to look at, because I was dirty. Because we you know, we had no shower we had the water would flow out of the house right into the yard. And so I just didn't realize I was dirty. I smelled. I didn't own a toothbrush until I was 13 years old. And and so she didn't see any of that. She just saw another person and she was my best friend until I lost her to breast cancer in 2015. The second one a teacher, an amazing teacher, she's still one of my best friends Barbara Naylor, biggest prayer warrior. And she knew from my file in high school that I was a back then they call it a word of the court. And so she was really hard on me. I thought she was the meanest teacher ever in the history of teachers, but in her mind, she felt like she had to teach me typing and shorthand, she had to make me employable. And that was going to be the way that she could best help me. And sure enough, my the next person is my first employer, Chuck Wheeler, God bless him wherever he is, he gave me that very first job. Because I was the fastest typist, high school and and had that Gregg shorthand, and that what neither one of us knew at that time that that was going to launch a 40 year career in insurance and risk management. So those are my people.

35:40  
Wow. And I'm so glad to use their names. I hope they hear this, too, all of us who hope that we have been a person in someone's life. We don't expect gratitude, but it is. It's powerful when you get it. All right, Justin, how about you? And I'm particularly curious, because it seems like a big turning point for you is when you moved to the, to the group home, but But first, I'll come back to that, first, tell me who your people are? Who is your person or persons?

36:09  
Yeah, I have multiple persons. And it's hard for me to kind of give one person a lot of credit. But first and foremost, all glory to God for me, for me become who I am today, you know, I think is goes to a huge part of the reason why we wrote our book, because, you know, the statistics set before me and my life as a black person, as someone who come from foster care come from the family history that I've come from, the odds are really stacked against you. So first and foremost, all glory to God, being able to use my testimony to do what we do today. But as far as people, I have mentors, my mentor Saba, who is like a rockstar in Michigan foster care system, always providing opportunities, homes and resources for youth in the child welfare system, Michigan, I've had mentors, the couple who started the group home that I lived in, I'm still in contact with them to this day, and they've supported me and give me feedback and helped me get out so many opportunities and so many things they've taken me and show me places we've I remember we did like a 15 hour trip to New York just drive in and, and like, I don't even think I've really been out of state to that point, they took me but my first time out of state was going to New York, and I was just like in a once in a lifetime opportunity. So, so many experiences that they showed me and given me and really just having married couples around me who are founded and based in their faith in God was really so inspiring and helped me in my relationship now. And I think that their belief in me and what they saw on me allowed me to become who I am today. And I was continuous words of encouragement, you know, from being in a home where people thought that they didn't think much of me to being in a group home where it had married couples around me who've been married for like 1020 30 plus years, as long as I've been alive who are speaking life into me and see greatness in me when they've accomplished multiple things that if I could do half of that I will be grateful for so then speaking life into me really helped me and really gave me the confidence that I have today.

38:16  
We group homes have a bad reputation. We hear we have this image when we mentioned when group homes are mentioned, we have this image of children being warehoused and not having personal attention and, and that you know, the pushes to get kids out of group homes. What was different about the or maybe not different, but it sounds like something was different about the group home you were in? Because that seemed to be when you were telling your story of a turning point. Am I Am I correct on that?

38:44  
Yes. So for me, I am not going to say I'm like an advocate for group homes. And in a perfect world, there will be no foster care system in general. Right. So there's no perfect scenario where Oh, go in with families perfect scenario where you heard when Alexis story that wasn't the best, or going going with a foster home or group home. These are not ideal situations. Because in a perfect world, we will all be with our families and be in a safe place. So there may be kids and nobody story is the same. So there may be kids who've gone to a group home and it was their worst experience of their life. And for me, it may be the complete opposite, but we're both right. So good for me. For me in this group home again, I think the main thing that was so important about it was that it did have house parents and we you know, we had our good times, bad times, but I still thank God for them. And they were important to me and my life. And so it was funded by the church. So the church didn't just put up the funding for the home but what they did was they made sure there was around the clock, mentors tutors, and we had our house parents and we had everything we pretty much needed. You know if I learned how to drive from, you know, the people who taught me how to drive in that group home, and I feel so bad for the person the first First of all, let me drive their car. It's a basket, it was a basket ratchet inside of it. But I know I got my license now. And I'm good. I'm so sorry for that. But yeah, it's so so many amazing people like Spanish tutors, math tutors. And it's just like around the clock support and encouragement. So I think that having a spiritual foundation was important. It wasn't forced on us, the guys in the house, I think the limited number of youth in the home, and there are group homes with like, number 20 kids in there, I think that there being only about four boys in the house was extremely important. But I think it's just extremely important for small numbers, and just being intentionally focused. And people who really looked like me in this environment as well, the mentors that I had the parents that I had extremely important when having people who look like me as, as well was, and seeing other black men successful, because I didn't even think that was possible at a point in my life. So all these components together was just so important to me in my life and becoming who I am now.

41:10  
Okay, thank you. You know, when we talk about and call you survivors, it can, it can negate the fact that even though you have survived, I'm curious, do you still carry the baggage? Does survival mean that the scars go away? Alexis, let me start with you.

41:32  
Yeah, that's a great question. And I think people look at us all the time. Like, you know, now that we speak on stages, we have our book, we have all these things that were healed. But I don't think anyone that comes from our background is necessarily healed. I think healing is an ongoing journey that does last a lifetime. And we have to continue to be intentional throughout our lives. And it could be through, you know, Faith counseling, whatever, journaling, whatever that looks like in your healing journey. But there are things it's going to come up through triggers, through memories through things like that, where we don't even, you know, we think that everything's taken care of, we don't have to worry about it anymore. But something may come up, but maybe a smell or touch or whatever, and different seasons or phases of our lives. And that's definitely you know, even something that we've had to navigate in our relationship and in our marriage, and why we are in individual and marriage counseling, because this is something we have to be ongoing and intentional about, for the rest of our lives. If we want to have successful marriage, and just successful relationships, even with ourselves. And then now that we are pregnant, and we're expecting, we have to be even more intentional, that we're not passing these things down, you know, to our future, baby. So it's just all about that intentionality, because things will come up. And I think it's neglectful and slightly naive to think that it's not, and to think that it's just gonna go away, and we can just suppress it because it's going to bleed out into areas of our lives if we don't really be intentional and tackle it head on.

43:07  
Anybody else wants to talk about baggage Rhonda, do you? Do you also carry baggage? Or have you been able to wipe that away? Now?

43:18  
I would say that the I mean, I'm I'm much older I have, I have suits that are older than you, Justin and Alexis. So I would say that, you know, I've been around I've made a few trips around the sun. And I would say that for me, the scars are still there, but I'm stronger where the scars are. And I have found that I'm stronger and more resilient and more resourceful and more courageous because of what I've been through. And so baggage, I wouldn't call it baggage. I think what I've been through is, is sort of woven into the fabric of my being. And so those are the things that that the experiences are the things that have created in me the characteristics of successful survivors. I mean, I wrote about that. And when, when successful survivors of trauma connect, like the first time I met Diana, you connect on a much deeper level, then the average person connects you're just it's like you've known each other for 20 years. Because of those, those shared experiences. It doesn't matter that you didn't have the experiences together and you know, you're 50 years apart in age or whatever it is the feelings of shame, humiliation of feeling unwanted and unloved. And I could go on and on all of those negative feelings are exactly the same. And so the good news is though, that when When you connect on that kind of a level, relationships are richer and deeper and more meaningful. And so I would say at my age, I wouldn't change a thing. Hmm.

45:17  
That's a that is a powerful statement considering what you have what you have gone through adoptions from the heart has been a long time sponsor and partner of creating a family and this podcast adopted from the heart was founded by an adoptee and they are celebrating over 35 years of bringing families together through adoption. They are a full service domestic infant adoption agency and they specialize in open adoptions. You can see and hear parents and birth parents and adoptive parents share their stories at their Facebook YouTube channel, which is a F T H. TV AFDA Thompson from the heart and a f t h TV. And it airs on Tuesday morning, you can also follow them. So, Diana up the if you could give advice to you are not in foster care, but experience trauma you may have wished you had been removed. But if you could leave with it, I'm going to ask the rest of you this too. If you could give foster or adoptive parents advice, what piece of advice would you give them? Because they're going to be raising the ones who are going to be listening are raising the little Diana's and the little Rhonda is just as and Alexis is of the world. What would you like for them to know that will help them help these children help them heal?

46:45  
That's a great question. Actually. I've thought about this a lot. Because you know, children, they struggle they will have they need to have that feeling of having that safe place. When they struggle. You know, Rhonda I did not know I even wrote it down where you said when a child throws a tantrum, they feel safe. I didn't know. That's a good to know, since I have two grandchildren. And I'm telling you, when they go, half you feel safe. Right, but you know what just you want to help them find or guide them into whatever little when it is that they had in that moment what whatever they're struggling with, they will come out on the other side and calm themselves down. And you got to point out that when and how they did it, because that gives them some confidence. If they like art, if they like a sport, if they like baking, cooking, helping you in the kitchen, doing dishes, chores, whatever, help them find something they're good, pick it out, you're the adult or you know, there would they would be the adult that can help them find that little tiny thing and then nurture that. Because when they find that they find their power. And that's what they're good at not forms and fosters that path that will start guiding them towards their own success and realizing it, I think,

48:08  
okay, Justin, what piece of advice would you have for foster or adoptive or kinship parents?

48:15  
Yeah, of course, I mean, so many things that I want to say. And you know, we talked a lot about this during our trainings for foster parents, for adoptive parents and our workshops for them. One of the things that I would definitely kind of piggyback with Diana is, you know, kind of making a sacrifice. I think it's important that we don't make a complete willingness to foster parents would need to make a complete one ad when serving a youth. But also make sure you know, it's so many changes that occurred in the lives of youth, we're going into a different home. And I've heard so many times you're in my house, eat my food, you need to follow my rules. And it's just like, as far as the youth were stripped of ownership and in, we aren't empowered at all, make sure you're empowering youth and making sure that you can make the sacrifices as well. You know, if they like playing video games or Call of Duty, you may not have picked up a Xbox controller a day in your life, or maybe just pick it up and just try to play with them one day, they like, you know, chess or checkers, or whatever it may be just play those games with them in, you know, sacrifice a little bit about your little bit of your comfort zone in order to learn more about them and make them feel important and give them that attention. You know, I think that's so much a foster youth we're adapting, we're changing we need to adjust but I think it until foster and adoptive parents are able to adjust and learn how we communicate. Are we more verbal communicators? Do we need to see the visual communication? How do we like to be we like hugs Do we like to not be touched? Or, you know, how do we like to communicate, you know, until you're active and able to learn more about the youth you're serving and making that sacrifice, then you won't make any progress in his world. And also, I would say just it's a community effort that you as an individual can't do this alone. As much as I harp on community for youth themselves to foster and adoptive parents in the community just as much, maybe even more.

50:09  
I'll say amen to that one. All right. That's what creating a family is all about. All right, Rhonda, for you, what piece of advice would you leave foster adoptive or kin families who are raising kids who have experienced trauma,

50:25  
I think the most powerful thing that we can do for kids who have experienced trauma is to tell them who they are, to hold up a mirror to their character traits. Because in our culture, we don't hear a lot about character, we, you know, you'd look at tick tock or, you know, other social media, and you see people focusing on physical appearance, and what kind of car they drive or what kind of handbag or shoes, they're, you know, and, and all of that is so completely inconsequential, I think, to hold up a mirror to a child and say, you know, you're stronger than the average person, because of what you've been through. You're more resilient, teach them what resilient means. You're more resourceful. You know, if if the child has been somebody living in a, in a poverty situation, and they had to try to figure out how to make dinner and feed their younger siblings on this much rice and crusty little ketchup in the bottom, they probably did it. That's being resourceful. And talking about how those character traits of courage and persistence, the tenacity, the ability to shift from fear, which is passive to coping, which is active, all of these things that we just know how to do. They're hugely valuable. They're highly transferable into the workplace. And those are the very things that will make them successful. So if the adult in their lives or adults, point those things out to them, it builds them up. And then the second thing I would say is give them opportunities to achieve. So basically, what you were saying, Diana, if we set them up for success, you know, have them watch the windows are the windows going to be blurry, and you know, whatever at okay, fine, bite your tongue, give them something to do, that when they complete it, they feel good about themselves. And, and then something else and something else that's maybe slightly out of their reach. And they'll get a thirst for achievement, and accomplishment. And that builds self esteem, I think more so than anything that we could say, because kids have a wisdom meter. They know when you're just blown rainbows up their armpits. And so when we say when we do this, when we help them to reach and achieve, they are building their own worth and value.

52:53  
Excellent. And Alexis, advice you would give to foster adoptive or kin families?

53:00  
Yeah, absolutely. I would say Justin kind of, you know, he takes he took a little bit of mine. But again, going back to that community piece, as well, he mentioned for the aspect of foster adoptive kinship parents having their community. And just moving on with that is when when foster adoptive kinship parents are building out their communities, the youth are watching that. And they're observing and they're seeing that example of okay, this is how I would build a community. This is what that would look like. This is how we can support each other. And that's exactly how I learned to build my community from watching my father or my foster now adoptive parents is because I saw how they relied on their neighbors and their church and other people in the community and how it was mutually beneficial. They always served as well as being served. And so it worked both ways. And so now I see that, and I can model that as an adult now. Because I it was just through observation, they weren't doing anything differently, or thinking of how it was necessarily impacting me. They were just figuring out how do they need support for themselves and for their biological children. But it actually helped me in a lot of ways. And then the other thing I would say is consistency. I think that's one of the biggest things that I actually learned from my adoptive parents is, no matter what they said, they always follow through with it, whether it was positive or punishment, or whatever it was, they follow through with it. And I had that consistency in my life, which I very much needed. And so that's also something that I can model in my adulthood because I know what that looks like and feels like. And I liked that suitability of you know of that consistency. And so those are the those are the biggest things I would say.

54:40  
Thank you. Thank you so much. Alexis Linderman black, Justin black, Diana Moser and Rhonda Shortino for talking with us today and sharing your stories of of thriving despite really tough beginnings. Now I want to talk about that. Three of you have books and, and one of you is working on a book. So I wanted to I want our audience to know about the books because I found I've read both of the ones. So let's start with Rhonda, Rhonda Shortino I did not realize you had written 15 books. So let's start there. I mean, don't tell us about all 15 Pick one or two that that you think would be directly relevant to inspire parents who are raising kids who've experienced early life trauma.

55:31  
Okay, well,

55:32  
first of all, I want to say that I want to provide a free book to anyone who wants it. It's written at a sixth grade level I wrote it originally to a 17 year old kids so if you have teenagers in your home you can get one for yourself and or for the kids in your home. Go to my website, Rhonda dot o RG click on books go to succeed because of what you've been through. And the coupon code is purpose is success. Purpose is success. Oh, when we're in you'll get it free. All one. Yeah, no spaces purposes success at Rhonda dot o RG. So there are other books that I've written specifically for foster parents, successful survivors. It's the eight character traits of survivors and how you can attain them, I will guarantee you that the kids in your care have a lot of them. And then the kindness quotient is specifically dedicated to foster parents who I call it radical hospitality. People who take kids into their home, who have no idea of the value of it until many many years later. And but it's, it's amazing. And we can all learn about kindness from foster parents,

56:50  
when you were proof of that one, only eight months stay at it stayed with you all of your life. So you're proof that, that it can make a difference even if it's short. All right, Alexis, and Justin, tell us about your book.

57:03  
Yes. So we are fortunate enough to publish and 2020 the book called redefining normal, how to foster kids beat the odds and discover healing happiness and love. This is fortunate to become a best selling book and through four different categories and Amazon, when how many now 13 to over 13 Book Awards, our first International Book Award just two weeks ago. And now we turn this book into an entire company called redefining normal are we do speeches, workshops and trainings around trauma, and how trauma can become generational. And we want to work toward creating generational success for families, communities, organizations and institutions as well. So from this book, we've created a companion guide called ready to redefine normal for youth. We're preparing to release our faith based companion guide this July. And sometime in the fall. I think you mentioned earlier in the interview we are expecting we're seven months pregnant right now. And we're expecting late August, early September, and somewhere around there. We want to release our children's book to go along with the birth of our first child. So we'll have that ready to go this fall and looking forward to that as well. So

58:13  
well thank congratulations on the upcoming baby. And thank you all for being with us today. It has it has been inspirational and I truly appreciate your being with us to share your your tips and your strategies and how and hopefully we can all those who are listening can learn and apply them. Thank you so much and for the audience. We will see you next week.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai