What is Happening with International Adoptees and the Citizenship Crisis?

What is happening with international adoptees not having US Citizenship. What is being done to help them. We talk with Joy Alessi, Director of the Adoptee Rights Campaign and three adult adoptees that found out once they were adults that they were not citizens.

Transcript

spk_0:   0:07


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Please forgive the errors.  This is an automatic transmission. 

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spk_1:   1:30
Thank you so much for having us. Don. We really appreciate the platform to be able to tell our stories.

spk_0:   1:36
Yeah, And you're It's a great platform because a lot of our audience are parents. Adoptive parents, O R. Foster parents and anyone whose lives have been touched by adoption should be in an outrage about what is happening, and we all need to get on board. So I guess I'll get back on my soapbox later. But for now, I'm gonna share my soapbox for joy. Um What do what do we mean by adoptees without citizenship? Um, how could you not have citizenship?

spk_1:   2:11
Right, so that's a great question. T begin with, uh, what we're referring to are those adoptees who were born outside of the country. So we usually refer to ourselves as inter country adoption adoptees and, uh, typically ah, we're adoptee, um who did not receive citizenship when we were Children by our parents. Uh, for some reason, Uh, and have aged into adulthood without citizenship. There are some miners who are vulnerable as well. That is it is our hope that that with shows like this, Thean information will get out and they will go through the naturalization process,

spk_0:   3:03
right? We should give a little bit of history now, just for people who don't know in 2000 and act was passed. Um, do you remember the name of the act Joy off the top of your head?

spk_1:   3:16
Yes, it was the child citizenship back.

spk_0:   3:19
The Child Citizenship Act was passed in 2000 and and to be overly simplistic, basically what it meant was after that data after it was enacted, the, uh, Children who were there they have to meet certain criteria have to be under 18. Apparent one of their adoptive parents has to be a U. S. Citizen and, ah, probably one or two other things. But then that when they arrive on U. S soil from her parents having picked them up for adoption, they have citizenship automatically granted to them. So the the majority now there are some exceptions, but they're fairly small. Um, if the adoption was not finalized prior to them arriving, then that would, uh that. Then they would have to then go through getting naturalized. But so the problem is primarily, as I understand it, with adoptees who were before the year 2000 in my correct joy.

spk_1:   4:22
Yes, that is correct. Mostly, uh, this issued applies to those who were born before 1983 which would mean that when the child citizenship actors in acted, if you were had not reached the age of 18 you automatically became a citizen. Unfortunately, if you were 18 or older, you could not automatically receive citizenship,

spk_0:   4:54
right? So what was supposed to happen was when ah, family adopted a child prior to the year 2000 and they brought him to the United States. They were supposed to naturalized to go through the process of natural izing their child post arrival. Um, I don't know, percentages. I would say the majority of parents did do that, but clearly there are a number of parents who did not. And I'm not sure if that's how all this how all of the people got into this situation, but nonetheless. Okay, um So how did it? It wasn't always the case that parents did not go through the naturalization process?

spk_1:   5:43
No, In fact, you are correct. By and large, this did occur. So adoption agencies have increased or did increase over the years. Their ability to, uh, you know, make the information available. But unfortunately, ah, you know, without federal oversight, uh, this is the immigration portion. It's not always completed,

spk_0:   6:11
right? And, you know, and it wasn't necessarily intentional in the sense I think sometimes people just put it off, procrastinated, then forgot about it, or it seemed like a huge It's expensive now. We didn't used to be terribly expensive, but, I mean, they spent a lot of money and just didn't think, for whatever reason, probably Maur inadvertent than than intentional. Although then there were other stories where the families were really struggling, posted option. Um, and they didn't feel like, you know, dealing with more paperwork, that type of thing. So there any number of reasons. All right, So, um, what type of adoption is most vulnerable to immigration type problems

spk_1:   6:54
well were overrepresented in terms of the adult population on definitely helped to do with the historical um uh protocol for many, many years, the Aziz said the citizenship process or naturalization process was entirely separate. Uh, so if you said many folks, you thought that they were finished after they're finally their final adoption in the United States. And as we know immigration with not a much of a concern on many, many decades ago as it is now, uh and also many state were yeah, you know, sort of thinking that their adoption in the state court made them automatic citizens.

spk_0:   7:55
Yes, that's a very good point. And I think if I'm understanding you correctly, very often, parents would choose to re adopt their child here in the U. S. Sometimes and certain countries. It was the first adoption because it was finalized here. But parents would choose to re adopt even if the adoption have been finalized elsewhere and assume that but because their child was adopted here in the US, that that would bestow citizenship and it does not direct right? Okay,

spk_1:   8:29
well, that's not actually

spk_0:   8:30
go, doesn't It's all right, really

spk_1:   8:35
right. At this point, it really depends on which country the child would be coming from and whether or not that country is a member of the Hague convention

spk_0:   8:47
and whether the adoption is finalized abroad? Yes. Okay. Anything else? Joy On the kind of the history of how we've got to this place?

spk_1:   9:00
Uh, well, I mean, I think we've done a good job of explaining in a very basic way. I would just add that the unfortunate part about the history of this issue is that it destro gone for so long. So with a commercialized adoption began, let's say in the early 19 fifties, it really wasn't until 2000. Uh, when orchid loving one. Really? When's the Child Citizenship Act became law. And so you know, what is that? That's almost half a century, or we have had two separate structures a state structure in a federal structure and not a lot of attention to the policy gap.

spk_0:   9:45
The long time. Yeah, very long time. And you may not know the answer to this, but why? When the child citizenship back was passed, didn't it become retroactive for all adult adoptees? Why the age 18 cut off? And do you know the answer to that? I don't

spk_1:   10:02
Sure. Well, I can give you the the answer. That is it. Friend explained to me by many different opinions But I think ultimately the idea was that there was a legislative compromises. We know when you can start out with a bill you could introduce. Ah, wonderful bill. Some folks refer to this as a clean bill, but as we understand, the legislative process doesn't exactly work that way. And there was a compromise. I think that the date 1983 really just to represent. Ah, you know that those that were minors. So the target beneficiary group of the child citizenship were minors under day of enactment. Anyone who had not reached the age of 18 which would have dated back to about 1983 those that were that benefit. I'm sorry. There's nowhere that date came from.

spk_0:   11:06
Okay, So arbitrary. Basically that make that does it.

spk_1:   11:13
Well, we thank you for saying that we do feel feel like it's arbitrary, although it really was focused up, uh, adoptees who were minors. Because then, of course, once you start talking about providing automatic citizenship to adults, you have, you know, different considerations to make. And I think that this still, during the legislative process, you know, had decided that they didn't really want to go into those other considerations.

spk_0:   11:45
Yeah. Okay. All right. Now I want to bring in the stories of three adult adoptee in her country adoptees who are without citizenship. And I want to understand how it happened and how how it impacts you. Let's start with Mike. Hey, Mike. Thanks for being with us. Uh, where were you adopted from what country?

spk_1:   12:09
And thank you for having me. I was a doctor from Columbia. Made 78 also, you know, early 78. Brought to America at that time.

spk_0:   12:20
How old were, you know? Were you an adoption two? Okay, So you were, uh, adopted and brought to the U. S. Okay. And, um, how does it happen that you have never gotten citizenship?

spk_1:   12:37
Well, apparently when my parents brought me in on the, uh, i r. 40. So, um, they did not finish the adoption in the state of Illinois. When they brought me back to America, they filed all the footwork in Colombia. Didn't think that you do thought they were done brought me back to America, and it turned out they don't do polyps with immigration or renew my green card. It's kind of which I did have, um I don't know. It's because of lack of knowledge or what the issue is. Because again, I was to

spk_0:   13:15
say so.

spk_1:   13:16
I don't know. Um, I I found out because I was trying to apply for school. Thio brother myself, My job, which I do. I'm a welder, And, uh, I'm not unraveled. A lot of a lot of theories that I did not know.

spk_0:   13:35
So how? Okay, So you grew up just assuming you were a U. S citizen and lived here. You had no reason to think otherwise. You got a driver's license? Did you have a Social Security card?

spk_1:   13:47
Yes. Um, have security card. They change my name. I lived a happy imagine. Um, mid Midwest town, you know, moved to Florida. I have a steady job. So has a government job. Had no issues, uh, knew my driver's license. Marty, you know, I did the things that I did. That

spk_0:   14:10
so you had no reason to know. So then you applied to some type of training program, and apparently you had to show proof of citizenship as part of that process.

spk_1:   14:23
Uh, that's correct. I had to show proof of identity, I guess, is what they were looking for and I gave him the tip work. I've had my life. Uh, it was all in Spanish. So, assuming, you know, so security took that paperwork. So I assumed a technical school. Take that paperwork without you. Okay. Became an issue. So following the trail, you know, walking back my steps to find out what had tapping it turned out that my parents did not do do that. It's a follow up with immigration. Nobody knows how the security card was obtained without the proper documentation. And there was no documentation of my name change for my birthday to my doctor that be presented quite a problem. Uh, and then it leaves a big shock when you're 41 years old and you find Look out, you know, you know everything want you know, your identity, who you are, what you grew up believing. Then you're you know, they're just gone and changed. Changed everything,

spk_0:   15:38
like, yeah, I can't imagine. Actually. Were your parents still alive at that time?

spk_1:   15:46
When I come out, my dad had passed, but my mom was still alive. Um, she do have their own juice. The issue of 86 years old you know, And mine, not a shark, is that And trying to get her to remember and find out what was going on? It's hard. I ended up doing a lot of stuff myself, along with helping my wife, and we could not find paper trails for anybody. And, you know, it became an issue to wear the hands of the higher immigration. Weird. I mean, that didn't go very well. The 1st 1 I i'ma check it warm.

spk_0:   16:30
So how does it impact you? Not being a citizen? Were you able to ever get into that school?

spk_1:   16:38
No. Not only was I not able to get no school, I had to give up all the rights of American Citizens Room that I thought I had boating. Oh, anything that you can be proud of, The citizen here in the country. I had to give it up, and then that turns to fear of ending up in the country. I didn't know because of the time I didn't know my situation, and we don't know everything going on. Um, it was rough now, you know, depression, depression set in. And I had no idea what was going on. Um, so It changed a lot. A lot of things, and I felt abandoned. That's the correct word to use

spk_0:   17:28
by whom

spk_1:   17:34
I felt abandoned by, my dear, my adoptive parents

spk_0:   17:38
not

spk_1:   17:39
doing it correctly. You're following up, um, by this government who says they stand by you and will protect us and to turn around and do a 1 80 to make you feel like you're not. And the second gets looks you get when you go into an immigration office. Now, you know, it's just sad to me now that being said, that's right. What about the parents? Go had passed the being felt like that anymore. There's nothing they can do anymore. Now I need to finish whatever I need to do to take care of that. Unites shouldn't have to, Right? It's out of our hands. My mom, that 86 cannot be anything else. Work?

spk_0:   18:31
No.

spk_1:   18:31
So I, um I can't blame her anymore. I got popped out. Don't forgive me, but I resulting like the government came out at the moment. Forget because I began. I shouldn't have toe have jumped through hoops to get pumping that I thought it was mine.

spk_0:   18:51
No, there. Yeah, Exactly. Okay, Um, let's bring Bianca in now. Bianca, where were you? Where were you adopted from? And ah, sure experience as to how you've ended up without citizenship.

spk_1:   19:10
Thank you for having me as well. Um, so I was adapted from what he's now nor casting Oranje. Att. The time of my adoption, it was still as if our Yugoslavia, um So I was adopted when I believe I was about two or three. Um, no one really told me much about it at all. Everything kind of thing to run smoothly. The only thing I remember is being in the USA with my adoptive parents, who are all from the same background. Um, all my life, they told model when I was younger, they told me I was adopted about four years old. Um And as time went by, they always told me If you don't bring your permanent resident card, don't bring diversity. Get don't show anybody any of that. Just your passport. You know, you're you're a citizen through us. Um, so I

spk_0:   20:03
Bianca, wait. Stop a second. Let me ask you a question. Your parents were from, ah, what was in Yugoslavia as well, but they were U S citizens. How did you get a How did you get a You

spk_1:   20:17
perform a growth before

spk_0:   20:18
he emigrated before. So they came from Yugoslavia to the U S and Wars and were naturalized in were U S citizens. They adopted you from what was in Yugoslavia. How did you get? Did you meet? Did you say that you had a U. S passport?

spk_1:   20:33
Um, so I d'oh, um, they I'm not exactly sure how they got it. They both actually passed away. Anybody still living? I'm know I'm not in contact with them. And you don't really know how to go about finding hunt. That doesn't know. Um, so what? What? What I'm starting to understand is my adoption was done in Yugoslavia. Um, I went to the embassy and was kind of like, pushed through essentially this usual after details. It's just what I was able to put together,

spk_0:   21:11
you know? Yeah,

spk_1:   21:14
exactly upon arrival, I guess, is when they gave me the permanent resident court on a social security number. Um, so on some of my people work, it says that my parents were to finalize the adoption in us. I under I R for visa and then other things. Like I have one receipt for an iron tree. I'm not really sure exactly what I came in on. Um, I do know that I spoke to another woman that adopted ah, girl from over there as well. And she said that they were supposed to finalize the adoption. The United States, although nobody did. So there was never anything down in New York is knocking on record that I was adopted or anything like that.

spk_0:   22:00
But somehow they were your permanent residency card and get you a U. S passport. That's interesting.

spk_1:   22:06
Yeah, it is actually really interesting. From what I'm understanding, they're able to apply for the passport on. Then I guess it was the honor system. I'm not really too sure, um, upon applying for their security card, um, when they receive one back there supposed to blow the court with tax Social Security card and say, Hey, this is my child. Let's finalize this. Although I did find after I actually have Thio get a lawyer too, and thank God for adult Detroit campaign. Um, so I'm not working with the lawyers was finally able to get a boy off for me. Um, So I do see that there was adoption papers, although not really too sure they qualify. Or one exactly what he doesn't issue is, um, so I mean, that that's really old. There is there is that in their applications for media constitution of an organ to be in immediate relatives,

spk_0:   23:09
nothing

spk_1:   23:09
really make that. There's, like, different birthdays, different names. Thank you, man.

spk_0:   23:15
So how has it you actually had a passport? Ah, And again, you had a Social Security card. So how has not being a citizen impacted you?

spk_1:   23:27
So I actually had a driver's license. I have security card, had a passport. Um, and now my driving privileges were oh, like, suddenly revoked, You know a way. I guess I went t o d M v it on. Um, that day said that my name was red flags in our system for discrepancies of my information, Um, and the asking for my permanent resident card, which has the worst a different birthdays and my passport and my birth certificate on a plan of being the first to get the guy behind the counter. The versatility wasn't riel. The first time I've ever heard anything about it. Um, turns out it wasn't. It's an extract copy of what would be a birth certificate. I was never given a natural real versus ever get, And, um, so I was able to drive anymore. Um, I went to Social Security. They attempted to confiscate my passport until the supervisor came out, was able to remove my middle name. Um, using some bylaws and whatnot like you keep that, um, And the past where I was given under special circumstances in my adoptive mother was hot. So I've had you got lucky. Whoever was there was there. Um, it impact me daily not being able to drive, mostly because I have four Children. Um,

spk_0:   24:48
which

spk_1:   24:48
is the smallest. I have a small child three years old, and I have Greek, uh, 12 13 and 14 year old. So, um, they do a lot of activities. A lot of sports. There was either. I have two choices there, Dr illegally, or I don't drive and I can't go to anything. Um, no cars can get it. And my name I had to immediately like, in order to avoid, you know, getting the car taken or anything. Put it under somebody else's name trying like an eagle. This is not even only vehicle. Um, they actually I asked them and, you know, my daughter said as much as she says, She doesn't want me to come to game, that she gets sad every time she looked up. And I can't make one, Um, and that it's embarrassing to tell her friends. No, my mom can't give you a ride. Just have a license. You might not get through this, you know, because it was shocking for them too.

spk_0:   25:41
Sure.

spk_1:   25:42
So it's kind of like a day. And I'm the only living relative that they have my book, my adoptive parents. That's way they're not in contact with their biological fathers side. Um, it makes it really difficult for them. You know, the worry. About what if something were to happen, Um, and then having to do teenagers, I'm in the toddler. She doesn't know anything about it, You know, she was kind of like how you go left You brought, you know, hopefully, she doesn't have to be affected by it, but even rise in the morning. They missed the bus. I have to pay for uber's and cab. It's exhausting bring the money and then not having I g like everything I do for that, I have to have identification on DDE. If I wanting doesn't surprise than the other doesn't even match to be able to make it happen

spk_0:   26:34
and count. There's a

spk_1:   26:35
lot of opportunities.

spk_0:   26:37
Yeah, I can see that. How how old were you when you became aware that this was a problem? Because up to a certain point, you probably didn't even know this was an issue.

spk_1:   26:48
Yeah, I had absolutely no clue. Um, about 10 years ago, Um, roughly a nice investigation was open, and, um, I called my mom. My doctor. Mother, of course, on Guy didn't have contact with my biological family. So, um, well, made up of mothers with what was going on, she got Yuria and, um, pulled That told me to tell them that you came to see me again to call her on that I considered going through hurt. Apparently, you know, they came back a couple of times. They threatened to deport me and had paperwork. And, um, she spoke to them. She has some type of meeting on. Everything was kind of like melon voice squashed. It'll but I never got any of the people worked. I never gave it to me, and she never gave it to me, so I didn't ask any questions. I just trusted her. But then after she passed, that's what I went thio the D m v at the whole passport thing. My adoptive father actually passed away when I was 17 and I was due to receive Social Security benefits through his union job. Um, my adoptive mother never told me that I didn't receive them because she couldn't prove citizenship. Um, I actually found that paper after she passed away from the Social Security Department for refusal of benefits because I wasn't a citizen.

spk_0:   28:08
Oh,

spk_1:   28:09
that's like kind of like uprooted all of my paperwork and documents and got going on the search.

spk_0:   28:16
Okay. All right. And then the spring, our last adult adoptee in Leah, Um, let's tell it, please tell us your story. Where were you adopted from?

spk_1:   28:27
Okay. Hi, Don. Thanks for having us. Um, I was bored in South Korea, and I was, um I can't deny I've taken 1983. My adoption was finalized about a year later. Next 94 I grew up in Nebraska on I do have a Social Security card. I have a birth certificate from the state of Nebraska with feel. But my doctor Parents Day, they got divorced. I mean, looking back is it dates When I kind of realized that everything together, they were really getting a divorce at the same time that light adoption is finalized. Um

spk_0:   29:04
oh.

spk_1:   29:04
Until the paperwork was just leaving this place. Um, it's persons that they didn't have the right documents. And so, really, the divorce is kind of what created Peter? The problem with my naturalization not occurring.

spk_0:   29:21
How old were you? An adoption.

spk_1:   29:24
I was about a year and 1/2 old.

spk_0:   29:27
Okay. And and did they both each think the other person was doing it or it just got swept under the general chaos that that that divorce had brought?

spk_1:   29:38
Yeah, I'm not sure at this time. I think that it just wasn't a priority. And I didn't know on that. It was an issue of the child. I

spk_0:   29:48
think

spk_1:   29:49
that I found out that I was not a citizen when I was a teenager. Um, my my high school A class is taking a trip to Europe and my mom. Just kind of like, Well, you don't need to go to Europe. That's a waste of money. But really was you knew that I would be able to get a passport to travel. Um, but like I said, because I did have all of the other documents that I got my driver's license in Nebraska and I had Marshall Social Security card. I went to college, and I have federal student loans. When I would complete the application, I would just mark I was a permanent resident and I would put my a number from my green card, and I never had a problem getting loans. And, um, when I was 20 I joined the Navy as a reservist, and I have no problem doing the military either.

spk_0:   30:39
Oh, so they didn't mind having you serve in the military or they didn't mind having you of the money, but then, but they okay, all right,

spk_1:   30:48
Grey, I think a lot of people think that you have to be a citizen to serve the country. Um, because definitely not true.

spk_0:   30:56
So you were in the navy at this point. You knew that you did not. You were not a citizen.

spk_1:   31:04
You correct? Actually, there were certain job then that were closed off to me because I was not a citizen. So I have you no other jobs that I could choose from.

spk_0:   31:14
Okay,

spk_1:   31:15
I'm I'm really glad that earlier you guys talked about 1983 and 2001 beings. The date that the Child Citizenship Act was passed did hers. I was born in 18 82 and had the law on past dinner. I would have been grandfathered in, but I was I just 18 6 months higher to that law.

spk_0:   31:38
So you dressed at All right? All right. So how is it impacting you to not be a citizen now?

spk_1:   31:50
Um, I think the last couple years I've really started connecting with other Korean adoptees and a lot of his adult now are starting berth searches Are birth families George's traveling factor? Korea Kind of reconnecting with our culture there and finding family members. And I never even considered that. But I think now the reason I didn't think about it because I knew it wasn't a possibility. Like, why would I search for Burke family when I can't travel a little visit them and made them so that, don't you? You little sad I right, I have this country that that I can't even go visit Percy.

spk_0:   32:39
Okay?

spk_1:   32:39
I'm talking about, like, looking with government agencies. I got pretty lucky in my last two full time jobs where I was able to go through the process with my birth certificate from River on my social Security card. Um, and I have my adoption people work from Nebraska that shows my name change from my Korean name to my American name, but I did lose it. We start working a part time seasonal job before the holidays and, like, their list was exactly the same with the other companies I've worked for. You need something from calling a which is usually a passport for something from the anti like that. Okay. I had recently lost my social security cards, so I was like, Ok, well, hi. My driver's license, which is she and I have my versatility get from Nebraska, which is see, it clearly stated on there inverse certificate from the state with the steal, but because my birth certificate that I wasn't born in the United States and they came back and asked me for more information, which has never happened before. So I had a couple of checks to the Social Security office and they e don't understand how they can get a Social Security number through in non citizen, But they couldn't give me a replacement card. Is that because an assistant I was much of a noncitizen? I couldn't get a striking blue piece of paper like the number didn't change. I just couldn't get a resistant card. That was you.

spk_0:   34:10
And they could. They knew they could tell him the system that you had had a card.

spk_1:   34:14
Yes. They said I had only been issued one choir ever. It was in 1988 when my mom got my 1st 1 and I have never lost it. I'd never ordered in the basement

spk_0:   34:25
of

spk_1:   34:25
my Social Security number, Valley is like I used it on my cock. Teachers is the limit. So they just couldn't give me another piece of paper with a number printed on it. I thought I was crazy.

spk_0:   34:35
Yeah, that does. Digesting crazy. All right, let me let me ask each of you I do. Do you guys fear being deported? Um do you fear being forced to leave this country? Me? Start with you. Ah, Bianca.

spk_1:   34:54
Yes, I d'oh! Um I fear that affair that I will be deported. But my biggest fear is sitting in detention because I don't have a country. And then what are my Children going to? D'oh! They have no one

spk_0:   35:13
because Yugoslavia no longer exist. And you really have a necessary You don't have any paperwork that connects you to Macedonian because Macedonia didn't exist. OK?

spk_1:   35:23
No, actually, I have to relinquish my my citizenship from Yugoslavia two years after leaving the country. So there's, like no record of anything. So my biggest worry is really like, what in the world these kids going to do if I wasn't here?

spk_0:   35:37
If you get deported or are stuck in just a detention Mike, do you worry about being deported?

spk_1:   35:45
Um, I used to Not much. Now last. Everybody that's been telling me that I should be fine is not really not truthful, Um, based on everything. And I don't have that periods brunch, But I like it again. I'm hoping that I was now there's no issue.

spk_0:   36:07
Yeah, I hope so too. Uh, Leah, what about you. Is that a fear that you have?

spk_1:   36:13
Oh, it definitely is. Um, you know, I feel like I'm a pretty lawful non citizen. I got J. Uh, but but you hear the stories, like the doctors are deported, military veterans are deported. And suddenly I think, you know, just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Like maybe being with somebody when they're committing a crying that you're unaware of. There's just so many ways that they could pick you up and open up an investigation and put the current administration and politics the way they are. You know, you treated have a nose so that that fear is always there.

spk_0:   36:48
Yeah, And I'm glad you brought that up. I mean, one of the I think joy, I don't know that you at I'd like to bring you back in. I do believe that there is a myth out there that you don't need to worry about this. Okay? Yeah. Maybe they should have had the citizenship, but is not as long as they're law abiding, Miss Leah said non citizens, as long as they obey the law, they don't have anything to worry about. And if it just gets my dander up. Uh, first of all we can see from talking with, like Bianca and Leah that the ramifications are are far more significant than just of non citizenship than just fear of deportation. But even the deportation and even even if somebody has broken the law, what happened to punishment fit the crime? You don't throw somebody out of this country for a you know, a for vets, not up the punishment. We have other forms of depending on what their crime is. There are other things. They do that and you don't throw somebody out. The country particular somebody who's who this is their home, and it just drives me nuts. When I hear people say that, what what? Yet why are we worried? Because as long as they obey the law they don't need to worry about, that just simply isn't true. And even if they didn't obey the law, they don't deserve to be thrown out of the country. Um, all right, joy thoughts on that. Do you also see that there is a misunderstanding as to the impact of this versus that? That that only those people who break the law need to worry about it. Do you also see that is a mission?

spk_1:   38:26
Yeah. First of all, I should say that there's obviously quite a lot of misunderstanding, one of the most common, this understanding that we are, Somehow we were adopted as adult and that somehow, you know, this was a, you know, a sort of side step are circumventing the system in order to get citizenship. So just like to remind folks that we're talking about the fact that we were adopted as Children isn't Children and so on.

spk_0:   39:01
Yes.

spk_1:   39:02
So there's that. But, you know, deportation is severe. That is true. It is severe. Uh, we don't believe that it fits the crime. Obviously, had it not been for the fiving errors and so forth, any one of the doctors who is pushed out of the country would have been treated as they should have been, which would be as an American. And we do believe that if obviously, if you have some sort of issue, ah, criminal action, we do believe that you know you should pay the penalty. But as you have said, we don't throw people out of the country, uh, for such things and I would say that also, faras we understand any adopting who has Ben deported has served their time

spk_0:   39:59
is so it's not

spk_1:   40:01
that they're just It's not that they're just discovered to have committed a crime and then all of a sudden kicked out of the country, they have served their time. And

spk_0:   40:09
I would just say that same here and right thing is, keep in mind. It's not like it is through no fault of any of these adopt adult adoptees, including the three we have here. It is through no fault of their own. They did nothing wrong that will, in this case, everybody oldest person was two or three. I mean, they, uh it is through mistakes, innocent or not, that their parents made, um and that is and so we don't punish Children for the mistakes of their parents.

spk_1:   40:44
Well, I wouldn't add to that that there were a lot of errors made by the government as well. So anything from missing immigration files to, you know, mismanagement, poor information, both from, uh, lawyers. You know, our legal community that No, that with the adoption lawyers adoption court. Um And then, of course, the federal government as well. So you know, is I myself went through this process. Uh, just a couple of years ago when I began to pursue citizenship for myself, I was still very, uh, very, very misinformed. And I wanted to answer your question to the other, uh, jockeys Mike, Leah and Bianca for my subtle I did fear deportation. For 25 years, I found out I was not a citizen at about age 25. And at that time I divulged that I had voted. I was in complete shock, and I not only feared deportation, but I fear prosecution. I was told that I would be prosecuted. Ah, held and deported. I think a couple of years ago, there was a case in Texas. It was not an adopted, but it was a green card holder who had voted as a non citizen, and she was prosecuted. She's serving eight years before she will be deported.

spk_0:   42:17
Oh, my gosh. While so

spk_1:   42:22
this is something that the fear is, you know, in terms of answering your question about the extreme, um, whether you're are outside of the country force outside of the country or you are trapped inside a country with out of state without a nation without a nationality. I think either way, it's incredibly different, are difficult to function. And especially now if we become a nation that is so tied to, um has tied just a basic right to citizenship or to where you were born to your birthplace.

spk_0:   43:00
Yeah, hearing. Let me think. Yes, police might.

spk_1:   43:06
I want to extend on the fear. Um, we'll talk about your deportation, but there's also fear there have immigrant in this country. It's more where you are, where you live. The fear hatred has been, um, in this country very towards immigrant. And that is a huge here. I mean, yes, deportation is here, but now here, when you're here, you have to deal with that on tacos that fear deportation to. So there's a lot of the It's a lot of people who do not know what's really going on, and they don't have the knowledge. So they have. They have the fear that we're all, you know, terrible people, and we're not. Yeah, I was thinking about Wolf of what might definitely definitely, you know, fear of judgment. Um, especially the case like going to the school. Do you, um, then saying things started. Friends like they have to pick and choose who they talk. Thio. Um and it puts like a big limitation. Like when certain people I'm joking. Like, let's see the principal about something or, you know, anything that would involve being necessary to say so, um, certain volunteer events like I can't volunteer of the voting booths and all that stuff, but I've actually never voted My adoptive parents told me never to vote. I really understand the connection. I just thought it was because of them. They never voted. Um, so it's definitely there's a huge judgment by it, specially. And, um, the community with the kids is apparent.

spk_0:   44:48
Business. Yeah, absolutely.

spk_1:   44:52
End here. Who's going to say something and why

spk_0:   44:56
is it right? And then I can only imagine as a parent not wanting your Children to feel shame. So not wanting to make it secret. But on the other hand, yeah,

spk_1:   45:06
huge, huge battle. It's like doing tell them not to say anything and, like, keep a secret. Or do I tell them not to? You know, so I kind of tell them to use their own discretion on DDE. Not everybody out there can't be trusted with your intimate information. Do you have your inner circle, your medium circle and your large circle kind of thing?

spk_0:   45:26
Yeah, that's a good thing.

spk_1:   45:27
Has really come up. You

spk_0:   45:28
know, it's a good way to put it. Actually, let me pause briefly to remind everyone that this show is underwritten by the jockey being Family Foundation jockey. Being family is committed to providing support to families nationwide nationwide. I'm sorry to help them be forever families on dhe and to support them for the lifelong journey that is adoption. So if you would like to support them, they support organizations like us. So please visit their website jockey being family dot com to see how you can support them and can impact families host adoptive families nationwide. All right, so joy. Um, so we know they're there is the problem here. So I know that there is legislation that could solve this problem that has been proposed. What is the legislation and what is the status?

spk_1:   46:26
So thank you for asking about that. Yes, uh, is a left 2019. Uh, Congress reintroduced the Adoptee Citizenship Act. That hr 27 sir. Tina. Sorry, I don't have it right in front of me. I usually just refer to it is the adopted Citizenship Act. It is h r. In the house. It is HR 27 31 and the results of the Senate Companion Bill. Uh, currently, uh, the bill is gaining momentum and the health of representatives we are way recently started to see additional Senate members. Uh uh, join on the bills by on larger bipartisan. So we're, you know, obviously very fortunate to see that both, um, you know, both Republicans and Democrats are supporting this issue. This is really as they should. This is a inter country adoption is a foreign policy. It is a, um you know, it has been for many, many years, and this is really about a family program and, you know, upholding. Um, you know, the importance of the inter country adoption policy in this country is extremely important. This bill will will help a the institution of adoption.

spk_0:   47:57
Absolutely. And it's also putting our money where our mouth as we say, that adopted Children have the rights of and become full members of their and should become full members. Both emotionally and illegally in every other way of their adoptive families. Well, that's easy to say. But if you're not going to give them citizenship, um, are make it easy for them to get citizenship. Then you're then you're not You're not backing up your words. I

spk_1:   48:24
agree with that. And thank you for saying that. I still think that it's very interesting and quite perplexing that there is not a legal mandate that adoptive parents, the stove, citizenship to their Children. So despite the progress that we have, despite the child citizenship it act and the automatic ah, citizenship that came along with certain classes of adoptions, we still have, uh, inter country adoption coming into United States from countries who don't fall under that automatic umbrella and, uh, therefore are still vulnerable.

spk_0:   49:03
So some

spk_1:   49:04
way urge adoptive parents to make certain that they taken the correct measures during their adoption process. And to be certain that naturalization is complete before, for the child's agent pertain

spk_0:   49:21
Right. Okay, so let's talk about this. So thank you for is a good way for us to sum up. First of all, what should parents do who have adopted internationally to make certain that their Children will not fall into this category and will not have some of the problems that all of you guys are facing right now. Do they need to? They need to have citizenship. There, there. Child citizenship papers. What? What do you recommend? That they do?

spk_1:   49:54
Well, thank you, I First of all, I think that we've got to general classifications of the options that are occurring. We have adoptions that goes from agencies. We usually refer to those as commercial adoptions. And at this point, I would hope that was adoption service providers are on board, they understand, and they are informing their client's perspective adoptive parents, and they're sticking with them throughout the process to follow up and make sure that all of these protocols were followed, uh, in terms of the other category, which is really where a doctor right campaign has focus. Uh, it's the private adoption. So it's the, you know, Mr and Mrs so and so from Arkansas, who decide to go to, um, you know, some other country on and pick out a child and adopted there and come back. And maybe they applied for the, you know, Ah, nonimmigrant visa and and maybe they've not had any legal, uh, 30 fight. So these are things that were very concerned about. And I were also concerns that the prospective parents are these adoptive parents are, um, coming into the country without proper vetting and the example where they would come in, they would. They would adopt a child, maybe from Peru. There was a child adopted a couple of years ago in Peru. The parent came back into the country. They need applied for a just a non immigrant visa. You know, a visitor be size thinking that they would come back into the United States and confirmed the naturalization. But that's really where they made an heir. And also it's an air on on the part of the embassies that are not overseeing those cases. So in the case of the Peruvian child, uh, it was too late by the time uh, they realized it. And ultimate the, uh, the immigration issued deportation orders on the child. So it's It's incredibly important that parents understand they can reach up to the State Department. They can reach out thio you know, an immigration or an adoption lawyer to make certain they're following each and every protocol that they need you before they come into the United States,

spk_0:   52:27
right? I don't think it's happening too much anymore because of the State Department has issued rules that say that even in non hey, countries you still have to use you still have to work. So I think it's happening much less now, but nonetheless. So all right, so that's that's the younger and younger folk. So what is happening? That's what parents should be doing. So what do you need? But that doesn't help. Um, Mike, Bianca and Leah and the others in their boat. That's not helpful for them. That does. It is important for those of us who have Children. They're younger. But that doesn't help. Don't help the rest of you guys. So what do you need? Ah, that. But the adoptee Citizenship Act would help them. So what do you need people to do to help get this act passed?

spk_1:   53:18
Thank you so much for asking that. So we would ask people to reach out to their members of Congress and asked them and urged, um actually to sponsor the Adopting Citizenship Act, A CZ we know

spk_0:   53:34
that's where the thing so you want what you're asking is you get your your house, your representative and your senators. Todo known that answers of the bill got you okay?

spk_1:   53:46
Yes. And I would say be persistent with it because one ask is not enough. Be persistent until your member has done so.

spk_0:   53:56
All right, great. Okay. So what we need is more sponsors for the bill. Ah, and that could be easier for both the house bill in the Senate. What else do you

spk_1:   54:04
direct? Well, you know how Continue to have discussions with your neighbors, your church, fellow church members, your You know, your peers, your your co workers and forums like this. This is so important. And that's why we're so thankful for this opportunity that you've given us. It's important that folks get involved. I can also reach out to us. We are on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. You can also look at that that adopt you. Right campaign. If you'd like to get involved with our campaign, we can certainly use the help there on open. We do have

spk_0:   54:46
it also donating. You could donate because you could use the money because this campaign not cheap you've got You've got all of you are doing this, you know, in addition to holding down other work and stuff like that. So anyway, that's another thought adoptee rights campaign you could get. You have a website?

spk_1:   55:05
Yes. You can find us at Adoptee Rights campaign dot or GE. And just to clarify our, uh, fiscal sponsor, uh, goes by the name of World Hug Foundation that you can find the link to donate on our website Adoptee rights campaign.

spk_0:   55:24
Got you. And you can also look up. Do you go by a RCR adopted right campaign on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram

spk_1:   55:32
adoptee rights campaign.

spk_0:   55:33
Okay, so you can follow them. So not only donate, but also follow them so that they more followers, they get the better able they are, and they get their message out in the better able you are to help them get their message out. Because you can retweet share whatever some of their post. Okay. And so

spk_1:   55:52
could I. Just Could I also just say for Fargo too? Maybe listening, who may not be certain of their status if you're in adopting and you're not quite certain about your status or if you are sure that you do not have citizenship. You can always reach out to us at Adoptee Rights campaign got ord. Uh, my email address is on our website. You can come through your messages through any of the social media forums were here in, and we are We secure your information. So if you are an impacted person in your, um you know, concerned about your security, we we can definitely help you with, uh, kind of overlooking your situation. And we will try our best to provide insights and guidance. We're not lawyers, but we definitely have some experience in this way.

spk_0:   56:46
Excellent. And I'm really glad you pointed that out because some of the people listening, um either on their own are apparent of somebody listening will be concerned thinking, Oh, my gosh. Does that apply to me? Let me pause and remind everyone that this show is brought to you by the support not only over underwriter, but also our partners. These air agencies that believe in our mission of providing training and support two families, pre adoption and free fostering, as well as continuing to support them through a lifetime of their family coast adoption post. Fostering one such agency is Children's connection there. An adoption agency providing service is for domestic infinite option and embryo donation and adoptions throughout the U. S. As well as home studies and posted option support. We also have Spence Chafin. They are a licensed, accredited nonprofit organization in the Yorks, New York City metro area that has been offering adoption service is for more than 100 years. They are known for their robust post adoption service. Is which provides birth parents, adoptive parents and adoptees, a supportive community and a connection to professionals who understands the unique aspects of being adopted a joy. Mike, Bianca and Leah Thank you so much for being with us today. To bring light to this situation. We will continue it, creating a family to retweet share, do whatever we can to raise awareness of this issue. We have our marching call here. We need to go out and get our members to co sponsor the bill, get our congressional representatives to co sponsor the bill we need to donate to your campaign and we need to follow you on social media and once you follow, also, retweet share whatever s so that we get this message out. I truly appreciate all that you guys were doing. And and for Bianca, Mike and Lee, I appreciate your willingness to come on and be vulnerable and share your stories. Um, human stories really do make a difference. And so thank you for all that you are. Thank you for for your bravery. And thank you, Joy, for your unwavering support and huge dedication from a time standpoint for what you're doing. I really appreciate that. All right, go forth. We will get that darn thing past. Thank you, Santee. So much. Don't. All right. Oh.