Creating a Family: Talk about Adoption & Foster Care

What is it Like Being Raised in an Open Adoption?

February 21, 2020 Creating a Family Season 14 Episode 8
Creating a Family: Talk about Adoption & Foster Care
What is it Like Being Raised in an Open Adoption?
Show Notes Transcript

We speak with a panel of adult adoptees about the experience of being raised in an open adoption. What were the advantages? What were the challenges? All of our panel guests were adopted at birth. They grew up knowing they were adopted and all are in their 20s and 30s now.

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spk_0:   0:09
* Note that this is an automatic transcription.  Please forgive the errors.

spk_0:   0:09
Welcome to Creating a Family Talk about Adoption and Foster Care. I am so looking forward to today's show we're going to be interviewing a panel of adult young adult adoptees that were raised in an open adoption. So we're gonna be talking all about open adoption. But from the perspective of the party in the Triad that really counts and the most, and that is the adoptee perspective. So I'm going to We've got five adoptees and I'm going to begin by introducing them and then having them start by giving you a very brief bio of what they're open. Adoption journey was. What is their open adoption? What did it look like? Ah, was it just phone calls? Was an exchange of e mails or letters between the parents, where their visits that type of that type of information, and then and also then what it looks like now all five of the adoptees were adopted at birth. All grew up knowing they were adopted, and all are now in their twenties, with the exception of one. And that's Justin Roberts and ah, and we'll actually start with him. All five have had varying degrees of openness in their adoptions. And, of course, that very experienced very experiences with both adoption and openness. So, uh, Justin, Justin just turned 30. Everybody else's in their twenties. Justin, um, if you would start, tell us about what was openness, like in your adoption growing up. And what does it look like now?  

spk_0:   1:48
Um Oh, mine. Maybe a little bit different than others. I'm actually the second adoptee in my family. My brother was adopted two and 1/2 years prior, and my parents found out they couldn't have kids, so they were looking to adopt. They adopted my brother and then two and 1/2 years later,were paired up with my birth mother. And then I came along and, ah, in the early days, um, it was letters back and forth and the telephone conversations and all the way up until today, I've got pretty much everybody's phone number, and we can text and get a response within 30 seconds. Eso it's It has evolved as technology has evolved and communication is is as open as it could be. Excellent. Okay, Next adoptee is Ariel and mimic short pronouncing your last name correctly. Is it Borovsky? Correct. Excellent aerial Borowski. Okay, Uh, can you tell us what open this looks like in your adoption as you were growing up and what it looks like now?

spk_1:   2:48
Absolutely So I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon, and that's where my adoption took place and was very fortunate to have my adoptive parents and my birth parents and all of the half birth siblings that I have now all based in Portland. So the level of openness was always there. I remember actually meeting them in person as young as really the the first real memory I have is my 10th birthday. And I remember we were at a park in outside of Portland and I remember all of my parents were there, and I that was the first point when I think I could understanding, articulate. Those are my adoptive parents. Those are my birth parents. These are the siblings I have and how they're all connected. So the level of openness has always been there. It's only gotten stronger. As I've gotten older and been more of an adult myself. I've been able to, you know, closely communicate with them. Everyone still lives in Portland other than myself. Who's in Denver now. And my birth father who just recently moved to Michigan. So the level of openness has been very strong on something that's been really important for us to continue cultivating.

spk_0:   3:57
Okay, excellent. Next up is Andrew Friesen. Uh, Andrew. What does, uh, what did your openness look like? Uh, and and what does it look like now, s O? Actually, I have a similar story with, uh, with what Justin is. My parents were told that they will, you know, my adoptive parents, they were told that they couldn't have kids. So I actually have an older brother who's adopted. He's about three years older than me. So I was kind of nice to grow up doing, um, going through things and having him there to be able to talk to about certain things. But for me, the adoption was open. But I can't say there was a lot of open communication. There is definitely some in the beginning days, but it wasn't directly to me. It was more, um, e mails and some letters back and forth between both mother and, uh adopted mother. But, um, nowadays, I don't really talk to her at all, but I actually was able to find my birth father, which was a long, complicated story in itself, but him and I actually have a pretty good relationship. So him and I talk a lot. So in summary, there was a pretty limited openness. And and then and then none. Really. Now, no communication now other than the birth mother, But not with your birth father of your birth father. There is communication between the two of you. Yes, exactly. So I was a little bit of a different experience of a open adoption, because it I would say it was kind of more just miss, You know, it happens, but didn't happen often. Then there was not from your standpoint, a cz a child. There was very little connection there. Yes. Yeah. Okay. Sure. Okay. Next up is Elizabeth Rentschler. Uh, tell hey there. Tell us your experience. Growing up on an open adoption and then what it looks like now. Well, my open adoption story is a little bit different. I actually did not have a great experience with open adoption. My birth mother was a drug addict and an alcoholic. So when she came back into my life, as a seven year old. It was a pretty rocky reentry, You might say, Um and we did have a fair amount of communication when I was younger, with visits and overnight stays and vacations. And it it was actually, um, pretty good. She wasn't rehab on dhe. She got her life back together, but unfortunately, she started to relapse. And because of that, um, those addictions that she still carries today, it was not a safe place for me to continue. So as of this point in time, I have no communication with anybody in my birth family. Um, all of them really have drug and alcohol problems. I do have a little bit of communication with my step birth grandfather. So my birth grandmother, second husband, But that has not gone very smoothly. And I don't know if I'll be able to continue that communications. So it's We had a lot, but it really wasn't a good situation for either party. When your birth mother and I assume your birth father, we're actually he disappeared during her pregnancy, so I don't really like her father. Okay, so it's just the birth s. So there was some degree of openness with your birth mom when she was sober and straight, but she re lapsed. It became difficult. Yeah. She also had a number of personal differences with my birth family. So there was a lot of religious differences and political differences that made, um, communication really difficult for both families. So, as as kind of like that connecting link between both families. It was a very stressful situation for me to be in as a child when you said she had conflicts, religious, political, you said with your birth, them with her birthday. Um, you mean with your adoptive family? Did understand. I'm sorry. Yes, there was there. She was very. She was a Christian, and we were not Christians. She was very conservative, and we grew up in a very liberal community. So there was There was a number of differences that just made it very difficult for both families to try to get along. So, as a child in that situation, it wasn't It wasn't great. Yeah, it was stressful. Okay. And, uh, last, but certainly not least this Taylor Rog here teller, did I pronounce your last name? Okay, but that's okay. I bet you get that a lot, but sorry about that Taylor road here, Uh, tell us about growing up in an open adoption what it was like for you as a child. And then what? It's what is it like now that you're an adult? Um, So I think mine might be the most open out of this group. Um, my birth mom is only, like, 14 and 1/2 years older than I am. So when I was growing up, um, she was around, like, on and off. We will go through periods or should be around a lot. And then, um, periods where I wouldn't see her for, like, a year or two. And then I'd see her a lot. Um, but she was around kind of as early as my first birthday. Um, so she came to like, Oh, my, oh, my early birthdays, up until eight or nine. Um, and she would come over for sleepovers, and we would have like, weekends. Um, and, uh, she she still she still she has moved to Arizona, so it's a little harder to see her, but she grew up in sweet home. So kind of a small town in Oregon. Um I grew up and was adopted in Portland. Um, so with regards to that, I think maybe I've seen my birth aunt a lot more. Her older sister lived, like, 15 or 20 minutes away driving. So I grew up seeing her and my great grandma a lot more. Um, but I still we're both really bad at texting and calling. So other than that, um, we would, like, talk a lot, but, um but so I I talked to them. Um, I visited her for a couple weeks in Arizona when I was in high school. Um, but she has five boys now, so and they're all between nine and 1/2 and 23 years younger than me. So the big age gap, but yeah, um, as far as, like, openness, um, I definitely knew that I wasn't might like my parents. I didn't come from my mom's tummy. My adopted mom, like I knew that by age four, and and I knew where I came from, but I wasn't necessarily, you know? Sure, on all of the aspects. Um, but I think that's pretty typical. Children don't really understand the the nuanced parts until, but they can understand the baby and the big broad strokes they can understand. Um, And then my birth father was not ever in the picture. Let me ask it. It sounds like, with the exception of Andrew, does anybody have a relationship with their birth father? Justin, Do you have a relationship with Is your birth father in your life at all? Ah, yes. Um, And and I, like the others, have known my whole life that I've been adopted. And I did forget to mention, ah, physically interacting and not just ah, snail mail or over the phone. Um, they are also up in the Portland area. I was born and my adoptive parents living Eugene still in the same house that I was brought home too. And, um, so I would see both sides. My birth mother, birth father, uh, about once a year or so and now my birth father. He remarried and had three kids. So I have 3/2 siblings and everybody is on Facebook and his mom, my birth grandma is kind of the family Wrangler. And she if you wanna find somebody, you go through her, and she can pretty much track down anybody in the family. Okay, So, um, one of the major arguments we hear against open adoption is that it's gonna be confusing to the Children that I mean, the Children who are adopted, that the Children who won't know won't know who their real parents are. And I put real in air quotes there. Or they will feel tourney between two families or that it will make them feel different up. So some some variation of that is what we hear about openness. So I'd liketo ask you guys what you think about that. Was it confusing? Did it make you feel different? Were Utah RNE between families? Ariel, let's start with you on this one.

spk_1:   13:21
Absolutely. I do think that's a common question. I get that a lot from friends and people that I need to ask me about my adoption. I wasn't confused. All my

spk_0:   13:32
parents

spk_1:   13:33
both sides were very open about the situation from, you know, they probably told me when I was one. I don't think I understood it until it was a little bit older. But I have never been confused or didn't understand that my adopted parents were my parents. They raised me. They put in the work. They did all the the parenting. My birth parents were also recurrence. They, you know, physically, um, you know, gave gave birth to me, but I it was never any confusion. You know, it's complicated, and in a sense, it's not your quote unquote standard upbringing. I know a handful of people that were adopted, not many. So. People have questions, and they're they're curious. But as a as a child growing up and as a grown adult now, I was never confused. It was, frankly, a blessing that I was able to grow up with to adoptive parents, siblings, parents and two birth parents. Siblings, step parents. It wasn't confusing for me.

spk_0:   14:37
So we do. By the way, what we hear people say is in the Children, the more love the better. The more people who love the child, the better that type of thing with that to be an accurate some information of your experience. Absolutely. Okay, Taylor, what about you? Um, was it confusing for you to be raised with two sets of parents? Well, so I wouldn't necessarily say that, like my birth mom was a parent figure mom because of like the closes and age. Um, she sort of fast in herself on is like an older sibling. So So I was raised, like with, um kind of like this older, older sister figure. Um, but, like I knew, I knew that, like, she was the person had had me. Mmm. Um, but it was It was like it was never in question as to like who my mom and dad were. Um, you didn't try to play that role. It'll no, um is she, uh she was like, Becca's an interesting person. Um, she had, like, her own stuff to deal with and her own kind of growing up to dio because she was really, like a sophomore in high school. And she had me. So she was a kid that had a kid, and she made the decision at, like, 40 and 1/2 to not go through. Um, the Boys and Girls Aid Society, because she wanted a relationship with me instead of I guess, a more closed. Okay, um, but now there were never I mean, people. We're like, I mean, I guess so. What's it like to be adopted? It's like, what's it like to have brown hair. What's that? You have blue eyes like it's normal. Yeah, it is what it like. It is what it is for you. But I think in the sense that kids figure kids figure out a lot more than anyone kind of thinks, um, they do. So it's like if you don't tell them, they know, but they don't know what you're not telling them. So so then that leaves it up to them, Really toe like speculate on the why and all the reasons behind it, Um, which creates its own kind of sets of doubts, is to like what you know. Why aren't you telling me, Like, what? Why are you hiding something? Especially if you don't look like your parents. I actually look like my parents, which is a little video. So that's like a little odd because just like looking looking at me, you're like, Oh, you look like these people. But if you like, put my birth mom and I next to each other like we really look the same. Well, okay, so that's an argument. One of the arguments in favor of of Wyatt and actually one of the big reasons that that we have moved to open this an adoption is because it's supposed to take that What ISS and the unknowns out. And we believe that is good for for people and good for Children being raised to have access to answers to questions of why am I not being raised by the people who gave birth to me? And why did you place me for adoption and all of that? So, uh, let me go back to you, Taylor. And so did because your birth mom was a part of your life. Were you able to get easy answers to questions? And do you think that was it? And if so, is that advantageous for you? Yeah. So that was, um, for me, that was like, um, it was good to hear the reasoning. Um, and like, my parents would kind of tell me, but they would, you know, they'd, like, dial it down. So but kind of by the time I mean, like, her story is not great. Um, because she was 14 and my birth father was 19. So, and it was a non consensual. So, like the whole thing, right? So when I say dial it down, that's what I mean? Um but whenever I would ask her something straight like she would never she never hide it. Because that's like her view is like, if the kid's gonna ask, you might as well just like, tell them that kind of explain it. Um my cousin actually had ridiculously hard time with us. I have a bunch of cousins that are a lot younger, so I had to go through the whole Why were you adopted with one of them? Just go on like that. It was It was interesting. Kind of See somebody who wasn't adopted, but who was like, trying to understand it. Uh huh. Yeah. I do think that that sometimes other kids and also what the kids air more blatant about asking questions. Stolz. General, you know, I have enough sense toe to keep their questions to themselves. I'm Justin. I was tryingto I'm gonna be focusing the question on confusion to those of you who had more of interaction and birth parents that we're more involved in your racing and I believe you're yours. Were. So was it confusing to you to have two sets of parents? Um, no. And, um, I'll give the same answer I did 18 years ago when I was on the last open adoption of Family Service's panel. Um, long A lifetime ago. But no short answer is I was never confused. Um, I have always known, and I don't know if it makes it easier or if there's any benefit at all to having my older brother also be adopted. But as far as I know, he was never confused. And and we've both known as long as we can remember, And they've been in our lives up until a certain point. My my brother's birth mother and birth father are now deceased, and so they're no longer in the picture. Um, but my my side of the family, my birth family, both sides are still around. And, um, easy communication. You know, if if I've got something that's come up with me, um, you know, a doctor says, Oh, well, that's hereditary. That kind of makes sense. But then I say, Well, I'm adopted, so it shouldn't, um But I have that open communication so I can just text somebody in the family and say, you know, a Has this happened to you before? Yeah, and I think you know, the other thing is, the beauty of social media does make it so much easier nowadays without having with with limited effort, it feels like, um all right, so let's talk about We've kind of alluded to some of this with, uh, with Taylor's comment about the ability Thio the unknown, the answering of the unknowns and then Justin's comment about medical history. But I'd like to talk about from your standpoint first. Always talk about what some of the advantages that you perceive to an open adoption. And then I'd like to talk about some of the disadvantages. Uh, Andrew, let's start with you. I know your adoption was not terribly open, so it's fair to say that you really don't know the answer to this, but what would you perceive to be some of the advantages, Um, even to the limited degree that your adoption was open, Uh, I mean, there has been an okay amount of communication in the sense that, um as I've gotten older, I've pursued finding answers to things I've come to understand that my birth mother is a compulsive liar. And so she really only says things toa protect herself. But, you know, if if I directly go to her, I can sometimes get these answers that I need. So I actually know more about myself and my family from the past three years than I have ever before. Not through a lot of communication, but through some essential, essential points but no open adoption. It is definitely something that I think is better, especially for the for the child, because I think that oftentimes there's just things and feelings that a child needs to understand. And, you know, as much as an adoptive parent wants to help them out and make them feel loved, which is usually never in question, it's I don't know about everyone else here. But when I was younger, I definitely could feel like that family dinners, that I was still slightly different than everyone else. And there was just something that wasn't quite the same there. And then it wasn't until I got older, where I kind of began to understand like, Oh, well, it is because I'm slightly different. But it doesn't make me not a part of the family, you know, um, so open adoption, I would say, is probably the best way to go forward with an adoption. My older brother was he was in a pretty open adoption as well. He got to see his birth mother, so I actually met her a couple times. But, um, I don't know. Sometimes there's just questions that you need. Do you have answers to? And it's just best to have the ability to get them get received the answers to receive them. Okay, Um, Ariel, from your standpoint, yours was a very open and it sounds like a pretty positive, open relationship. So what would you say? Some of the advantages far for Children in particular. Or if you feel comfortable saying what you think the advantages might be for your both sets of your parents.

spk_1:   24:28
Yeah. I think you know the ability to ask those questions about, you know, the thing that's dumping my mind is the medical history piece, like like Justin said, You know, they asked about your medical history and you sort of thing. Well, I don't you know either. No, I don't know. When I was a young keen, I had really bad migraines and they couldn't figure out what was wrong. And they asked about my medical history, and we finally realized that my birth mom had also had my grades of a teenager and that she grew out of them and I took her out of them. So it was just one of those moments where we all said, really grateful that we could ask that, you know, literally my birth. My adopted mom picked up the phone, called my birth Mom said, Hey, did you ever have this challenge as a teenager? And she said, Yeah, I did. So those those are huge advantages, you know, from a the medical side of understanding the history and being aware of, you know, things that air, that our genetic and things you need toe Watch out for a CZ, you grow older. But I think emotionally for the kid, the advantages are knowing that there are doors that are open to ask those questions. You know, my adoptive parents got most of my questions because they were present, you know, in the household growing up. But they were not afraid to say, you know, that's a great question for uber mom. Free birth Dad and my birth parents were open to answering questions. My dress mom was also extremely young when I was born, and, um, you know, that's not a plan, not the plan scenario. But she was never, you know, she didn't lie about about what happened. She was very open and honest about it. And those were questions I have because, um, one of the worst questions I was ever asked by a friend in middle school, I think was why you upset that your your birth parents abandoned you. And I said, Well, that's not the case. That's not the case at all. And let me tell you why. Um, you know, here with my my birth mom who was young, and I, you know, wasn't planned. And she did an amazing thing by, you know, having me going through a pregnancy in high school, putting me up for adoption, you know, providing, you know, a child Thio my adoptive parents who couldn't have their own kid. So, um, those are all questions that I have in stories I wanted to understand and, you know, having four people who were totally open books. Um, you know, really, there were no questions, and that led to their being no confusion.

spk_0:   26:59
Okay, Elizabeth your experience was it was an open adoption, but it was only really open for a short period. And then it was more strange off, I would say 10 or 11 years. So it was over for 10 or 11. Yeah. Gotcha. Okay, so what? What were some of the advantages that she felt that you or your either set of parents got from openness, and then I'd like to move into some of the disadvantages. To be honest, I don't have the same answers. Is the rest of the panel I don't have a lot of positive experiences to walk away from? I guess the only thing I could say for an advantage is you know, there is something intangible that you get from having blood relatives. You know, I look very much like my adoptive mother. If you were to put, she showed me a picture once of her 14 and me at 14. And I legitimately thought it was me. And we have a lot of the same mannerisms. And when I was there, you know, I could feel that connection. However, it was never an open connection. So, you know, I I was too young to really think about? Oh, maybe I should get her medical history so I don't have that information. And now I never can you know, that will forever be closed. Yeah. Okay. So you you didn't have the advantages because you didn't weren't able to ask. Did your adoptive parents ask your birth mom? Any of that information? People weren't thinking about it as much back then, either. I don't think they asked a little bit. They wanted to know any like life. It's like there was cancer in the family, which there isn't. I know that, um, my birth grandmother suffer also for migraines, but she grew out of it. I never had that problem, thankfully, but really, what they were focusing on at at the time was the drug and alcohol problem. So that seemed to take forefront. So that was That was really the thing that was the main topic of conversation. Is it helpful? It hasn't been helpful in your life to know that you have a genetic history of addiction. It has been, um as I as I have as I was watching them and going through those years of watching them relapse because it it was a family problem. Um, I think it's made me very, very careful around drugs and alcohol. Um, so I will never be the one going out on a Friday night and getting drunk and then not being able to go home, you know? So I think it's provided a little bit with that. It's also nice to give the doctors some some background. Although I don't drink and I don't take drugs, so has limited use times, and you don't have a lot of other medical. All right, so now let's let's shift to talking about some of the disadvantages and Elizabeth, And I'm gonna stick with you on this one because I think you you have experienced some of the disadvantages Can you articulate for us? Some of the, um the The disadvantage is now I know that that you came from kind of a different philosophical, religious, political background. Um, was that in an in and of itself, the problem are the way that it was expressed or what are they? What were some of the disadvantages of an open adoption from your perspective? The two sets of parents hated each other. Essentially, it was like a really bad divorce where both sides cannot stand to look at one another. They did not have the same parenting styles. They did not have the same religious views. They didn't have the same political views. They did not agree on what was best for me. So every time they got together involved some type of argument and also the birth parents could tell that there was alcohol problems, um, starting to crop up, which were lied about. And since they didn't have a lot of connection, they could never prove to anybody that this was a problem that I should be in that scenario, You mean your adoptive parents were sensing that your birth parents were having an alcoholic drug problem catcher, So there was just a whole lot of communication problems. Um, my birth parents, my birth mother especially, um, lied a lot, and they took the form that they had to fix me because my adoptive parents had done everything wrong. So as a kid, I felt like I had to fix it. I felt like I had to protect my adoptive parents from my birth parents, and I felt I had to lie to my birth parents about what my adoptive parents were telling me because I didn't want to upset everyone. So you were caught in between or you felt caught in between two very desperate world views, parenting views and everything else. Yeah, that took a great emotional toll. Well, it was a huge stress. I started hiding the problems I was seeing, um, with my birth parents from my adoptive parents, I started straight out lying to my birth parents. But when my adoptive parents were saying to me like Your birth mom has an alcohol problem that wasn't okay to say to my birth mother that we knew that she was having a problem. So I think that's I think that's a story that often gets, um, not told because that, you know, open adoption, I still believe, is the best option. It's a wonderful thing for a child to have, but I think we also have to recognize that oftentimes, if the two sets of parents don't agree, that can put the child in a really, really stressful situation. And that needs to be recognized. Yeah, for sure. Um, Justin, yours was a more positive relationship. Can you think of some disadvantages that either you experience or you think that either set of parents experience with openness? Um A. It's I wouldn't say it's hard to think of somebody. Sometimes they you would hear on TV or somebody would try to make fun of somebody because they were adopted. They'd say, Oh, well, Ha ha, you're adopted or you're you're not like everybody else. But I never understood that because adoption has been a positive thing in my life because my birth parents were so young. Um, and my birth mother decided Thio put me up for adoption. It's It's always been a positive thing. Um, they there are some definite disadvantages, I guess, in terms of the medical history, Um, because sometimes you don't know how to answer the question on the spot, and you have to go home or or attacks somebody and figure it out. And sometimes I I too, have been dealing with some migraines, and I'm the only one, um, kind of on my own. But hopefully like the others, I grow out. There you go. All right, So now let's talk about what, uh, your adoptive parents in your birth parents did write a CE faras. I don't mean adoption in general are raising you in general. Clearly, they did a fantastic job because you guys are all amazing. But I'm really speaking only of from an openness standpoint area. What did your what would you say? That your adoptive parents and then and then what your birth parents did right in in relation to open adoption? Because yours is such a positive experience.

spk_1:   34:55
Um, they my birth parents, I think we're trying to be pretty selective and who they chose. They tried, as best they could to find, uh, an adoptive family that was similar to them. Um, and they put in a lot of effort to build that relationship. So my birth parents were in their late teens, and my adoptive parents were in their early thirties amid 30. So there was, you know, they were different stages in their life, but But here they were coming together, you know, around the common cause, Which is me. Um, and they put in a lot of effort to build the relationships and, um, you know, probably some awkward conversations and some weird feelings that, um, you know, frankly, none of them probably expected to have. And then there's all sorts of of things that we have adoptees and frankly, anyone that hasn't been an adoptive, a birth parent, we can't understand because we don't. We don't know what that was like, but I think they did a good job of communicating regularly. Luckily, we were all in the same Portland metro area, so it made it easy for that communication. But, you know, my birth father, um, what wasn't very close with his father and, you know, leaned a lot on my adoptive father toe to be there for him, and they have a good relationship. Um, so, you know, I think it was a lot of work that they put in tow, strengthen that relationship which, you know, did wonders for me because, you know, we'd have family dinners or birthdays or events where I see my birth parents in my adoptive parents hanging out and you know, interacting and last thing. And, you know, I'm not saying that their views were all the same. I'm sure that there were moments where my book, my adoptive parents made a decision on parenting. Me and my birth parents said I would have done it that way or whatever, but but the the relationship, you know, from my point of view, was always strong communication. You know, keep them being friendly, then being supportive. And I will say that all happened despite multiple divorces, which which were very challenging for me as a child. My adoptive parents divorce and remarried. My birth parents were never actually married, but have built been through marriages and divorces. So lots of moving parts. But despite all of that, I still felt like there was a cohesive unit. And that allowed me to grow up in an environment where I had support, which was really huge.

spk_0:   37:29
Okay, Taylor, what about you? What would you say? Um, your parents, your adoptive parents and your birth mom did right? When it comes to openness. Um, well, so my so yes. So, against my birth mom was, like, really, really selective on, um, who she picked, Um, she actually chose, um my parents based off of the parents she wished she had had growing up. Um, so she came from Ah, uh, really kind of negligent background. Um, and just no, no support on dhe kind of awful home life. Um, but she? Yes, that was like how she did it. And she didn't really have any kind of objections to what my parents were doing, really? And a link because they ended up kind of parenting. Her also. So So they were kind of, um So my parents are My parents were 42 when they got me thinking, um, they could easily your parents. She was 14. Yeah. Yeah. No. Yeah. So they were. So they could have so really kind of was because there were. They weren't at all even, like, close and age. I think that, um but so and just kind of how she placed herself is more of kind of like a sibling or an aunt instead of like a parent. Um, just kind of gave over all of kind of the rules And like the racing style, I guess. I think maybe the only thing I can think of is I'm hyperactive, which seems to run in the family a little. Um, but my birth family doesn't really do medication. Not, not really, but And my parents, like, put me on that at about seven. So I think that might have kind of been the biggest difference and like things that they would have done differently. Okay, Now let's talk about some of the things that you wished either set of parents had done differently. Now, Elizabeth, you're the one. I'm gonna start with you. I imagine you've thought about this Having been caught between what do you wish? Let's start with your adoptive parents. What do you wish they would have done different That might have made things easier for you. You know, honestly, I don't think that because I was hiding so much trying to protect wth, Um um, with everything that was being hidden, I think that they made the best choice that they could with the information they had. Um So, honestly, with them, I don't think that they could have done anything better simply because they did everything they could that they thought was right. So I put them on that pedestal for trying the best that they could. Even though their kid and there surrogate parent the birth parents were were both in the in essence, lying to them, some with better intentions and others with my birth parents. There's not much good that I can say. I think the best choice that they ever did once was leave, which is depressing now that I say that. But it's true. Leave meaning leave the open adoption or leave re via Essentially. Now, this is you know, I have that legal right to to go, but to to find them. Will I ever take that? No, I don't think so. Because the experience waas hard enough that I really don't think there is anything positive to gain going back to it. I'm eating with my birth grandfather. Um, he is the only one I would consider even trying to reach out to, but quite frankly, that some That's been hard enough as it is. Um, Andrew, what about you? What? Uh, are there things that you can think of that your adoptive parents or your birth parents could have done differently That would have made things better for you? Um, well, definitely, definitely by my birth mother could have been a little bit more truthful and open and communicative. Um, so there's many things there that could have been better. But you know, now, as I older, I understand kind of what? How? Why? The situation is the way it is, and it makes sense. And I don't really, um, get too worked up over when I think about it. It's like, you know, she did what she had to do. And like everyone else here, the best thing that she ever did for me was putting me up for adoption. Um, my doctor parents, they I mean, they've been great. There's there's almost nothing I can say that there has been a couple of times where they've kind of kept that there was a little bit of communication between them and my birth mother. If they kind of there's this little phase where they kind of did that. And But, you know, I'm pretty good with computers. So I figured that out, huh? Yeah. My mom was kind of shot. Mike, my adoptive mom was kind of shocked when she realized I actually knew that it was going on the entire time that it was going on because But that was a little awkward for so outside of that. No, I mean, they were amazing. And they still are, you know, very supportive. And, um, you know, like everyone else, my mom was quite young. 17 So that's a little bit. You know, that's that's old compared to some people's parents here, birth parents when they had him. Um, but, you know, now I'm going to school. I grew up in a great place, and, you know, obviously Oregon is the best state. So complain about that, So, no. Yeah, there's not much that I can say is I would I would complain about when it comes to my birth parents or my adopted parents. Let me pause here to remind everyone that this show is underwritten by the jockey being Family Foundation, and they want all adoption agencies to know that they have a program of backpack program for newly adopted kids. Agencies need only apply in order to have their newly adopted families receive Children, received a backpack it has and initials and broad raid on it for the child, and it has a bear and a blanket inside. It also has a parent full of information to help adoptive parents. It's too free for adoption agencies. It's free for families. You need only go to the jockey being family dot com website and sign up under their backpack program. All right, I think that way here in the I'm immersed in adoption world, of course, as an adoption educator. So I think that others believe that by opening up adoptions, we take away any potential negative feelings adoptees may have about adoption. Um, and that almost that it may be a panacea for everything, and maybe it ISS. That's what I want to ask you guys. Do you think that open adoption makes the whole adoption experience? I think what the fear is it that you adopted Children would feel Camera, Which one of you said abandoned in area was you was talking about a friend in middle school. Middle school's a tough time, and a friend in middle school said to you about your parents abandoning you. And I think that we we think in terms of, we want to believe. Perhaps it's, um, Austin adoptive parent. I want to believe that, you know, openness could could take away any potential up feelings of abandonment are our feelings of banks are just feelings of not fitting in an adoption or feeling different because you're adopted. So, Errol, let's start with you. Any thoughts on that does open adoption, take care of that, or is that inherent and adoption itself. And open adoption doesn't change.

spk_1:   46:15
I think it took care of it for me. Like I said earlier, there was no confusion. I I never had a moment that I remember sitting around our family event saying, G, I'm different. I just felt, you know, Laura and Nick with my parents, and that that was that was not confusing for me. I think open adoption does fix a lot of those things. I also preface it by saying every family is different, Every child is different, every situation is different and things that are one way, you know, one year change over time. Um, no, no person story is the same. But, um, you know, I know people who have had closed adoptions, and on top of the angst and challenge of being a teenager, they were also trying to find their birth parents, and I didn't have to deal with that. You know whether your birth parents are the people that you I want them to be or not want them to be? Um I knew that That was very clear there, right in front of me. I had questions. I got them answered. My friends that had closed adoptions were wondering and questioning and doubting themselves. And then, in one scenario, she met her birth mom and her birth mom didn't want anything to do with her. I mean, it was it was traumatizing. And I I'm not saying there aren't challenges with open adoptions are. Like I said, every every family and scenario are different. But for me, um, having the openness and, you know, obviously starts out with a legal requirement for there to be communication. But after a while, it's just second nature. Everyone wants to stay in touch and be communicative. Um, that that eliminated the challenges for me as an adoptee.

spk_0:   47:59
Justin, what about you? Um, yeah. I mean, I don't, um really remember any any big challenges. I do think I'm forgetting the question. So if you could repeat that, fair enough. And I kind of wandered around that question rather than asking it directly. It was the the idea that that openness will take your got these perhaps feeling abandoned or feeling different. Or take some of the ah potential downsides to adopt and take it away, and that openness will cover up and cover ups out the right word. But open this will, Will will make it easier for people not adopted people Not to feel any of those feelings that were possible with adoption. Um, like, I I will say that I remember my birth mother being around a little bit more than my birth father. Early on. Um, but, uh, that went away pretty quickly and side. I've seen both sides fairly regularly, and now we're all on Facebook and having everybody's phone numbers. Uh, I do remember. That's probably been 20 years or so. Um, and I asked my parents, my adoptive parents what? How it all happened and and what happened? And then I I learned that my birth parents were young. And that's not something that, um, young teen parents can handle all the time. And so I kind of learned some of the more heavy stuff around then, And, um, I've just been learning more as I go on. And I'm a parent myself now, So I'm gonna understand some of the troubles that, um, they would have had to go through. And, um, luckily, it's been, uh, open the Andrew. What about you? Does his open adoption taken away some any of the sense of abandonment or not fitting in that, that some adopted people report. So I I think at this point, we can all tell that my adoption being an open adoption, you know, written down on paper and legally isn't quite exactly what it was. Um, so for me, it was a very different experience. Ah, honestly, I think it sounds more similar to Elizabeth's experience. Yeah, I think so, too. With Yeah, um, I don't know. I mean, it was great in the sense that if I could get a hold of her, I could answer some things, but that was very, very, very rare. I mean, it's probably happened less than a dozen times my entire life. Uh, so it was definitely It was definitely harder for me when I was younger, especially middle school. When you just brought that out, that just that threw me back was like, you know, what were the questions like because, you know, that's that's the time where everyone's going through change and everyone's comparing themselves to their parents. And they're saying, Oh, you know, my My dad is six foot, so I'm probably going to be close to that kind of thing on. And so it's like that was really when I kind of started thinking about it. Maur and, um, kind of realized that there is a difference. It bothered me for a while, but, you know, as I've gotten older, just I don't see why it should be a big deal anymore. Um, you know, and I have a great relationship with my birth father, which is, you know, it's a long story with all of that, but he didn't know I existed. Well, say so That was a bit of ah surprise when I found him when I was 18. Uh, he lived in Las Vegas, so I actually flew down there. And, um, after we had done a DNA test secretly, but, uh, no, I mean, I would say it's hard for me to speak on. Yeah, that's there. Comes with an open adoption, because I wouldn't say I quite had one. Yeah. Yeah, I get. No, I hear you. I'd like to, uh, shift to talking about siblings, and I have two questions. How first of all siblings that your half siblings or it could be full siblings. I suppose that your birth parents, Children that your birth parents had either before or after you were born. And I'd like to hear about how those relationships are And if it is, and if those relationships have were important, are taking on more importance are less importance as you age, Taylor, What about you? Um, you said you had five have five on each side. I don't I know that much, but I don't know the the paternal side got you. Okay, um but so Oh, that, like I was an only child. Um, for I am, I am an only child. Um, so like, so So the 1st 1 Um, so my birth mom's oldest kid. Um hey, he's in high school now and said so he because of we had a almost a decade of age difference. But even so as like an 11 year old, you're still kind of a kid, in a sense. So you're, like, cool. Like, you know, I'm a sibling like this is kind of fun. So with him, I think it's It's the most, um, sibling. Like, um, I would also I would I would say that, like, my my, uh, my oldest young, younger female cut. So my aunt's oldest daughter is about the same age is my oldest brother. Um, so they're, like, two or three months apart. Well, so I actually grew up with her a lot more. Um, so I would like babies at her, and, um, she would come over, look for weekends and stuff. Ah, a lot more than my little brother. So I would say, in a sense, like, I really have what feels like two siblings, like a cousin who's a sibling and a little brother. The other ones? Um, yeah, all the rest are are more. Um Well, so I was I've been a teacher like an a camp counselor for more than a decade. So it's It's more like, um, I do teacher mode with them. You're not. It's less of a sibling relationship. No, it's not. It's more of like it's more like, um, an ant. Yeah, more your they have given the age difference. Elizabeth, how about with you, Um, and do either of your I think you mentioned that your birth parents did have Children. Um, has that been I think I think I know. The answer is that it's not a relationship that you have have sought out from what you're saying, Was there ever a time that having that room? How was that relationship when you were younger? Actually, that's an interesting question, because I don't know for sure. If I do, we think I do. We don't know. Um, I learned just a few months before it cut off all communication with um from my birth. On that she was alluding. She never said All right, but she alluded that I was not my mother's first child. What happened to those other Children? I don't know. I don't know if she knew. We know that my birth father, who again was never in the picture, did have other Children, although again he left. So, you know. Yeah. So it's always been something. I've thought about what it's always been, something kind of like, I wish I could talk to them. I wish I could figure out who these guys are, you know, and get their inside some on my parents, especially my father's my birth father's Children, you know, because I don't know him, but I I have no idea how you begin other than like hiring a private investigator, which I can't. DNA testing isn't me. It's gonna be That's one thing in the future. But, uh, that has its ups and its downs as well. I mean, things, staff after you have to be very prepared for, um, Justin, what about you? Did either of your birth parents either have Children before? Since they were young, they probably didn't. Did they go on to have Children? My birth mother. Ah, I am the only one that she ever had. And my birth father, Uh, he got married and has three other kids on. So I've got 3/2 siblings on that side. Gotcha. And was the Are they young enough that our old enough that that you have a sibling relationship with them? Or is there too great about age gap? Um, they call me Big Brother. Um, I am, of course, the oldest. And, um, they

spk_1:   57:13
are one and a

spk_0:   57:14
half two and 1/2 and four years younger than me. So they're fairly close in age. Yeah, they are, actually. Yeah, they hurt the relatively close in age. Did you have a relationship with them as part of growing up or has that developed more when you've been on your own head of by some numbers and connect with him via Facebook or Instagram, I I think my earliest memory would be going over to their house, and it was kind of a family get together. And we got together with the older relatives who have since passed on and having them tell stories. And then all the kids went out in the backyard to play. And so I was the oldest in the group, so I kind of had to play baby sitter. It almost felt like But it was It was a little different because I I was playing with my siblings, and so that was a little bit different. And then my last question is, let's see those of you who have adopted siblings, Uh, Andrew, I think you do, Andrew. Okay, so you're you have a brother that's adopted. So my question is, was his adoption open and to a more so than yours? Because yours really was not to open. So did did. Did that it was his adoption. Open adoption. A better one. Meaning that was more open and more a supportive of the child than yours. Ah, yeah, definitely. Um my my older brother. So, like Ariel had brought up earlier. Um, you know, everyone handles this completely differently. So and maybe it is. People think adoptees air like this uniform group get riel. I mean, there is different as any other group of human beings. I know. It just drives me crazy. Human. Yeah, exactly. And there's no such thing as any group of humans that you know is similar. Anyway, that's a pet peeve of mine. Sorry I interrupted. No, no, my brother. So my brother, actually, he does not care very much at all that he's adopted, so he's never really sat there and thought much of it. But his relationship with this mom was ah, I'd say it was pretty okay. She's someone who's constantly going through a tough patch in her life. But, you know, she's been supportive when she can be, and, you know, at least they gotta hang out. You know, I I actually, you know, met her a couple of times when I was younger because my mom couldn't leave me at the house so she would bring me with to go meet his mom. Um, so from what I could tell she was pretty supportive. I know that, um, you know, she's young enough to wear. My adoptive parents actually do try and support her as well. Um, when she's going through some tough things. So I would say it was definitely better relationship than mine. Uh, did was that hard for you knowing that he had a relationship that you didn't have? And was that was that Because we hear that from parents. They say, you know, I've got two kids and one we have a wonderful open adoption relationship and the other one, the the birth Parents don't want our relationship, or we we you know, there's addiction issues or whatever, and they worry what it's gonna be like for their child. The child that doesn't have that. So was that hard for you? It definitely was, um, so I'm a relatively sensitive person just with, you know, just emotion, stuff so and a deep thinker. So when I sit there and I have to experience this, it makes me think a lot. And yeah, it definitely was, um, pretty tough on me at times, but, you know, as I got older and just understood everything a lot better. It just made more sense. And I kind of realized that, you know, even though he had that relationship with her, she still wasn't the greatest person in the world. So he's growing up to understand that as well. So they don't really talk much anymore. But yeah, when I was younger, a lot of things made me think like that. Okay, um, Ariel, did you have, uh do you have an adopted sibling?

spk_1:   1:1:30
Ideo? I have sex.

spk_0:   1:1:32
Um, uh, that your birth from your birth parents are from your, uh, your burden. You're okay? All right. So what about in your adoptive family? Do you are there? You have your child, Or

spk_1:   1:1:43
so I love when people ask me that question because I am an only child by blood. And I grew up in only child, but I have one older. That brother on my adoptive side for my adoptive mom has been son. And then I have 6/2 birth siblings to on my birth father side and four of my birth mom side ranging from, um my my stepbrother is 32 31. I'm 28 my youngest half birth fiddling is one um,

spk_0:   1:2:15
so

spk_1:   1:2:16
So I I've grown up knowing all of them. I mean, I'm talking specifically about the birth, the birth side. So there's six there. Um, they range in age. So 14 geez, 1920 20 and 25. I think for all younger, um, three boys, three girls. I would definitely say, you know, we were I was old enough to, you know, like I was in high school and they were in elementary school, you know, we had nothing in common. It was kind of a weird age. But, um, especially the two girls, Um, as I've gotten older, you know, they're there in the early 19 twenties now. I'm 28. You know, they they're really, really special to me. I think I tried to be like a big sister to them. You know, the person that they can go to and talk to about things they don't tell their mom. Um, the boys I'm not quite a close lift e mean they're closer in age to me, but we just don't quite quite have the same relationship. And then the the one year old in the four year old, Obviously, they're they're really small. They're the ones that live in Michigan, so I don't see them as often. But, uh, it's been a lot of fun to have young siblings to grow up with, considering the night I did grow up in only child. Um, you know, up until I was 17 when my mom got me married, I was an only child. So it's great everyone's in Portland, except for the folks in Michigan on. And it's been just a joy to have have the siblings there.

spk_0:   1:3:52
And the last question is to you, Elizabeth, were you an only child in your adoptive family? I was. Yeah. Okay, then that that answers the question. I just wanted to know if there was a difference in in relationships, but as an only child, it would didn't have another adopted sibling. Yes. Yeah, I don't know. Uh, let me remind everyone that this show, as well as all the resource is provided by creating a family, couldn't happen without partner agencies who are who believe in our mission of providing unbiased, accurate information to adoptive parents from the very beginning of the journey, all the way through post adoption. One of these partners is this Delmar. They are a licensed nonprofit adoption agency. What's over 65 years of experience helping to create analyst They offer home study only Service is as well as having full service, Infinite Option and International and Foster. And with Spence Chapin is a licensed and accredited nonprofit organization in the New York City metro area that has been offering adoption Service is for more than 100 years. They have and are known for. Their robust post adoption service is provided to all members of the try and adopt days, adoptive parents and birth parents. And they say the's service is they believe in, and they continue to promote their their for their families from the beginning, but continuing to be there for them. Post adoption. Well, thank you guys so very much for being on today. I can't tell you how much I've been looking forward to this interview because I truly believe that adopted people are the experts on adoption, and we really, really need to listen to you guys on dhe learn Maura about what the experience is like from your standpoint. So I'm I'm truly appreciative. Justin Roberts area overs. Okay, Verona Broschi. I'm sorry about it. Andrew Frisson, Elizabeth Rentschler and Taylor Row Care. Thank you so much for being with us today and two for everyone else. As we always say at the end, Keep in mind that the opinion shared here are those of the guests and do not necessarily reflect the position of creating a family, our partners, or are under arrives. Also, the information given in this interview is general advice. To understand how it applies to your specific situation, you need to work with your adoption professionals and to our audience. Thank you for joining us, and I will see you next week.