Parents may assume that the transition from foster care to adoption will be smooth and welcome, but that is not always the case. What should parents expect and how can they help their child with this transition? Host Dawn Davenport, Executive Director of Creating a Family, the national adoption & foster care education and support nonprofit talks with Jayne Schooler, author of numerous books related to adoption including; Wounded Children, Healing Homes: How Traumatized Children Impact Adoptive and Foster Families. Jayne has been involved in the training and education of adoption and foster care professionals and families for over twenty years.
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Parents may assume that the transition from foster care to adoption will be smooth and welcome, but that is not always the case. What should parents expect and how can they help their child with this transition? Host Dawn Davenport, Executive Director of Creating a Family, the national adoption & foster care education and support nonprofit talks with Jayne Schooler, author of numerous books related to adoption including; Wounded Children, Healing Homes: How Traumatized Children Impact Adoptive and Foster Families. Jayne has been involved in the training and education of adoption and foster care professionals and families for over twenty years.
Please leave us a rating or review RateThisPodcast.com/creatingafamily
* Note that this is an automatic transcription, please forgive the errors.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone to creating a family talk about adoption and foster care. Today we're going to be talking about transitioning from foster care to adoption with Jane schooler. Jane has been training and educating adoptive and foster parents and professionals for over 30 years and is coauthor of a book I love. The book is Wounded Children Healing Homes, How Traumatized Children Impact Adoptive and Foster Families. Welcome Jane to Creating a Family. Thank you so much for talking with us today.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks Dawn for inviting me. Thanks.
Speaker 2:All right. When we talk about transitioning from foster care to adoption, there's really kind of two scenarios. There's probably more but but we'll keep it simple and say there are two scenarios. One, you are the foster parent of the child you're going to adopt and two, the second scenario is you are adopting a child who is living with either another resource family or in a group home. And so I want to keep both of those scenarios in mind because the transition would look different depending on whether or not you are the current foster family for that child. So let's start with talking about if you are adopting a child that you are currently fostering. So now the child is living with you and may well have been living with you for some time. So how is adoption different from fostering?
Speaker 3:Well that's a great question because many families that come into the whole foster care system wanting to adopt, start out as foster families. Yeah, exactly. Have to really understand that when they become foster parents, they are the temporary parents of that child. They cannot make legal decisions in some States they can't even make a decision about a haircut. Oh, that's true. Yeah. Which is really interesting. And much of the planning for the children is not really in their power or control. However, when they make a decision to adopt and that adoption is finalized, it is though that child was born to them and now they are all of a sudden able to make decisions that they were not used to making for this child. They make legal decisions, they make the haircut decisions, they make educational decisions that perhaps they had not had the opportunity to make before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay. So that's from the adoptive parents standpoint. What are some of the typical emotions that we might see from a child who has been living in this resource family for some period of time and has been a foster child and is now going to be adopted? I mean I think we naturally think in terms of, Oh this is a good thing for this child, this child is moving from a temporary situation to a permanent situation. There's certainly a push for permanency in general and we believe that it is good for children. Sure. But a, so let's talk about some of the positive and perhaps not so positive emotions children may experience.
Speaker 3:Well, obviously it probably Dawn's going to be depending how long that child has been in the home. But one of if, if we start from the more challenging side, first there is going to be perhaps a sense of guilt if he has siblings that are in other places that they're not going to be adopted. Perhaps he even still has siblings at home, but there's birth family and that are still not in the best of circumstances. So there might be guilt. I think for many kids there's always that hope that their birth family will come around and when that final decision, when they're finally being told that they are going to be adopted, there's a lot of grieving that children may not even understand the fact that this is a permanent decision that happens to him. It's Erie vocable and so it's very hard for them to work through this. While that's someone else understanding the whole grief part, adults think kids should be happy and relieved and they say, I'm losing my family permanently. There's no going back. So I think grief is huge for them
Speaker 2:and the lack of understanding of that grief and the fact that children almost universally love their birth family. And that's sometimes hard for a foster parents and would be adoptive parents to understand because sometimes these children have come from pretty rough environments, but children are still usually still love their birth parents. So yeah, grief is grief is a big one. What are some other emotions the child might be feeling?
Speaker 3:Well, a fear of the unknown. Was it going to be liked to be permanently in this family? I've always had the hope that maybe I could go someplace else. So the might be a fear. It might be a great sense of relief that I'm finally in a permanent place. So I try not to be removed from this place, which I'm not going to be removed from this place. And I think when we think about from the child perspective, there's a whole continuum of emotions that families really need to be aware of, be open about talking about very critically important
Speaker 2:and allowing the child to feel what they feel without parents putting their own expectations on the child is important as well.
Speaker 3:Right. And I think for parents to understand if a child is having trouble with that, it's not about them. It's about how do I manage all these motions? I don't understand. What do I do with the love I still have from my birth parents and will anybody talk to me about that? Please talk to me about that.
Speaker 2:And oftentimes the child has not been consulted about this decision. So there is also the feeling of of being out of control and that that varies. I think depending on the age of the child. So how far in advance should parents start preparing their child? Usually we start getting a hint from the case worker that reunification is, no, it looks like it's going to be the goal. So parents usually have some heads up warning and are usually not usually are always consulted about if they would be interested in becoming the permanent home, becoming the adoptive family for the child. So parents have got some warning, but at what point should children be clued in that this may be something happening is going to happen,
Speaker 3:you're going to happen, you know, this is, that's a hard question because in some places it doesn't happen till it happens. Yeah. And that's a hard part. I've worked with families that basically almost up to permanent rights were terminated. It looked like adoption and all things. All of a sudden things turned upside down and the child goes to another relative. So I think having a child know what perspective, depending on the age, because I believe kids know anyway. Yeah, I think they pick up a lot more than my realize. They know a lot more. And so depending on the age, I would keep them informed about what the current decisions are and where they are and honestly so we don't know where this is going to be landing. But I think just being honest about where they are at that present moment as really critical and as it as it looks a little bit more secure, they need to know now timeframe wise, again, it depends on the child for an adoption to happen. For an older child, they want to be part of the process. For younger kids, they just need to kind of be explained a little bit about the new family depending again on the edge of the child. There's lots of books I think that out there that can help kids with that.
Speaker 2:Okay. And now what about other children already in the home, be they by birth or adoption or foster? Actually other foster children in the home. So what are some of the emotions and behaviors that we might see from children who are already in the home who know this child? They have been being raised for X number of months or years with this child. So what are some typical emotions and pavers we might see from children in the home?
Speaker 3:I think if we can talk about maybe even when that child comes in the home first and then we'll kind of look at the rest of that kind of stuff. But biological and other permanent kids can deal with some issues of primarily becoming invisible with this new child coming in. So if parents have not made sure that their a bio and other permanent kids are not dealing with that issue, the issue of being invisible, visible, yes, they can maybe dealing with a lot of resentment. And so I think again, I think this becomes a parent issue. Being aware of what they're seeing and the other permanent kids in the household. If there's a lot of conflict and friction, honestly meet families need to think about that. It could be sibling conflict or it could be far deeper than that. So I think resentment can be big if it's not nipped in the bug pretty early. I'm wondering really who they are in this family, especially if the birth order has been messed up. Yeah. This,
Speaker 2:yeah. Yeah. Had experience living it. But up until this point, the children have been told as temporary. Right. Uh, and that shifts when it goes from temporary to permanent, that shifts that's different, which you can deal with and live with for six, eight, 10 months is one thing. When you think, I bet put up with this Brad or whatever your, you know, that their feelings might be for the rest of my life is a different thing. I like what you said about parents need to be aware that the children already in the home have a tendency to become visible during this process. And so Bree letting them know that you are listening to them and spending time with them just seems crucial though. We're going to a, yeah. So I mean, yeah, so that's a, that's something so expect that they're going to have a variety of emotions and they may not all be positive about
Speaker 3:absolutely. New addition. Yes. And I think another one too is they have great difficulty when you have a foster child that's probably gonna move into adoption. The same thing. They don't have, they have difficulty explaining to their friends who is this person to me? You know? Right now he's temporary in our house. And so how do I explain? So parents need to help parents or their children really explain, have a story to tell about who this child is and potentially what he may become to the family.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And, and, and that story will change because the story you've been telling. So yeah, think through the, the news story and if the foster child or soon to be adopted foster child is old enough, they should also be part of crafting story. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. Okay, so we said there are two scenarios. One is that you are the current foster parent to the job. But the second scenario is that there is a child that is becoming legally freed. His or her parental rights are being terminated and for whatever reason the resource family or the foster family or the group home or the group, I'm getting it out. But the resource family is not going to be the adoptive family. So this child has been matched with your family and the adoption is taking place. A child has not lived in your home before. So let's ask some of the, the questions that, that uh, what are some of the typical emotions we might expect from a child who is living in one place and they're living not only their environment is going to change but also their status is going to change. So what are some of the emotions and behaviors that we might see?
Speaker 3:Well two thing words come to my mind Don. When we're thinking about moving a child from a foster home into an adoptive home and those words are attachment and orientation. These young people coming in, no matter what age they are losing the an attachment in some cases, maybe the only attachment they've ever known in the foster family and they are losing basically how to live my life. Cause I, my attachment figures teach me how to, how to live. So think about how lost you have been a new place. You didn't know anybody. And you mentioned you'd go to Mexico cultural experience that you lost. And these kids come in and they can't tell you, I feel lost. But even in the transition, that whole system of attachment and orientation, so it may lead to a lot of frustrated behavior. It may be lead to a child going inward or a child becoming very aggressive and behavior. We have learned a lot that there's always meaning behind behaviors. Sometimes we try to correct the behavior with the, Oh, it could be the meaning here. So I think two things parents need to understand. It takes time for a child to rebuild that attachment and rebuild that orientation in a new home.
Speaker 2:Yes. So what they have been told maybe permanent has not been permanent in the past. So the child has every reason to be suspicious of permanency and attachment. So how far in advance should children who are going to be moved from one home to another, be, uh, how far in advance should they be prepared? When should preparations begin?
Speaker 3:I think as soon as you know that's going to happen again. It depends on the age. If you're moving a baby or a toddler. I am such a strong believer in the whole transition process. For years, kids were moved from one home to another without any preparation, without any time. No, it is, it breaks my heart and I, I think the healthiest thing is that the foster family and the new adoptive family can work together. The adoptive family visits in the foster home and then the foster family visits with that child in the adoptive home and then once the child is moved, that child has as much contact with that foster families they need the greatest stories ever heard. Dunn was at a conference and a woman said, I brought three young girls into my home out of state adoption. They could not see their foster mom. And she said on the first night at dinner time, I gave them all phone cards and I said, you call your foster mom, you call your mom, mama Sue, whatever name was anytime you want to. Well, they used up the cards right away. She gave them more and less than that. She gave them to permission to transition out of that relationship. And I think that was probably when the healthiest, do you remember the days when they would cut off contact for over 30 days with a foster family so the kids could attach?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. And that used to be believed that they think that's the best way. And now with or without phone cards and we can do FaceTime, um, video chats, uh, you know, the Google chats, a Skype, FaceTime on your phone. So yeah, there's, there are many ways to keep that. And then to finish up, would we expect some of the similar feelings from children who are already in the home when you're going to be bringing in a new and most likely a child past infancy with those be similar to what, uh, in this case, the children already in the home don't know this, so there's a lot more unknown. Anything else that we should touch on about children already in the home and what we might expect as parents if we're bringing in a foster child with the intent to adopt them?
Speaker 3:Well, I would never ask my biological kids their opinion if they want to adopt this child, if no matter what they say, they're going to do it anyway.
Speaker 2:Yeah. If you've already decided, right, right. Or, and even if you're one, you should at least give some thought to, is that a burden to put on a child if the child says no and then you don't go through with the adoption? Is that too much of a burden? I don't know. You know your child,
Speaker 3:you're right, right. I had one family said that we had a family gathering and this was really more about a child coming in as a foster child potentially for adoption, but they sat down and they already had four or five adopted kids and their 14 year old bio dollars. She said, I can't do this anymore. And they listened to her. So I think we have to really listen to what our biological kids say when we start adding kids to families permanently. Adding them, of course, even temporarily adding them.
Speaker 2:Well, even temporarily. Yeah, because that still changes the family. So the bottom line is listen to the children already in the family and respect their emotions. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:[inaudible]
Speaker 2:let me remind everyone that this show is underwritten by the jockey being family foundation. The jockey being family foundation has a national backpack program and the whole gist of this program is to provide every newly adopted child with a free backpack, which is initialed, has it's a nice quality backpack and as the initials of the child and it can has inside an adorable little bear and a nice casualty blanket. But most important, at least from my perspective, is that it has a parent tote with resources to help you parent better. This service is free. It is the mission of the jockey being family foundation. It is free to adoption agencies and industry to parents. The agency itself does have to sign up however for the program. But they can do that by going to the jockey being family foundation website and just click on the word, uh, backpack program. It'll take you right there. And that website is jockey being family.com okay. One of the things on a sticky wicket, and this is particularly an issue when children are older and that is the whole pros and cons and adoption to changing the child's name. And it's complicated because we have three different names kind of. We have to negotiate the first name, the middle name, and even the last name. So what are some of the pros and cons to changing a child's name and what should parents think about while they're making that decision?
Speaker 3:Sure. Well, let's tackle the first thing first if we, sure. When I think about a parent who changes a child's first name. Of course there's some names that are just been actually humiliating the kids. I understand that, but dr Vera Fallbrook, who's been around the world of, Oh probably over 50 years, talks about a child's identity is pretty sealed by the time they're nine months old and that kids can really develop identity issues if we begin changing their first name, and I thought that was interesting. She told us a story real quickly about a little boy whose name was Christopher and on the advice of a social worker. They change it to Johnny, but he was four when he came into the adoptive home foster to not be at home, and whenever he got in trouble he said, that's not me. Christopher did it. I'm Johnny. And so I began to see a kind of a split identity. I encourage families to really examine why they want to do that. You may have children, eight nine 10 1112 is particularly girls that in that age group, we all think about maybe changing their name. I don't know if you did it, your agent that
Speaker 2:absolutely I did. I was sitting here thinking that exact same thing. Yes, yes I did buy and I might've even pushed for it. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But, but I hated my name so I still don't like it. So I would have, I could not think of it, right.
Speaker 2:Better name, but I, Oh, I played around with it wanting my parents to call me any number of different things. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And that's why I put a Y in my name when I was in seventh grade, I didn't want to be playing chain. Oh, how funny. So you put the why so he no longer are you the planner? Yeah, yeah. Anyway, I never made it illegal. But anyway, it's very funny. I've been married and passports and everything else. But anyway, so if girls particularly that age are really pushing and changing their name, I would encourage your family and let's just wait and change. If you want to put your new name as a middle name maybe, but keep the one you have now,
Speaker 2:that would be a compromise. Which would, um, well, let me, let me summarize what I'm hearing you say is if it is parent initiated, where the parents want to change the name. What I think I'm hearing you say is think twice because that name is part of your child's identity. Sure. If there are issues with the name, either it's got some very negative connotations or whatever that that a concerning with you. Or more importantly, if the child is pushing to change the name, then what I'm hearing you say is come up with some compromise that allows them to keep their first name so that they can either go back to it. Would you let them be called by their, your, let's say their, their name is Gertrude and they want to go by Susie and would you agree to call them Suzy during the, you know, because they're asking you to, or would you say, no, let's, let's keep with Gertrude.
Speaker 3:Well, you know what, a lot of us have pet names for our kids and say, yeah, if you want me to use that as a pet name, but as our special Lenel love name to you. Yeah, I'll call you Susie if that's what you want. I think we need to give kids choices, but carefully within boundaries. The last[inaudible] is another issue too, especially for older kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about that last name is part of often a part of your identity as a family, so yeah. Okay. So how to handle the last name issue?
Speaker 3:Well, for the younger kids, obviously not a big deal. For teenagers, there's a possibility. A hyphenating is a possibility. I know one of the young people that I placed, the family, he didn't want to be adopted because he was the third in his family. John Smith, the third, and so they work with it. I, I'm not sure how they ended up the hyphenating the third piece, but they ended up doing something with a hyphenation. Some kids, I think there's a real something when their take on the last name of the family like you do in a marriage. Is this a marriage agreement? In a sense, adoption is like marriage and so there is that. We are now family, so it really helps identify with that new family. For some kids. I think one of the best solutions, a compromise is a hyphenation if that's what they want.
Speaker 2:And if the child is young and has not identified necessarily with their last name. Do you see any problem with changing the last name so that everyone in the family has the same last name?
Speaker 3:No, not at all. And I would be more concerned about changing a younger child's first name.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so for a child who is, it sounds like one way kind of the bottom line is that for children who are old enough to have an opinion, which children developmentally can be different critters, chronological age and and developmental age. And those two are not always the same and often aren't for children who've experienced trauma. But let's assume that they're developmentally and around, you know, the tween, the 10 1112 on up. Those children should be involved in the decision making of what happens with Sharon.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. And let make sure their voice isn't heard. Yeah, yeah. Bottom line, they need to be heard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Maybe that's kind of the summary of a lot of who we're talking about. It is children need to be heard. Okay, well let me remind everybody that this show would not happen without the generous support of our partners and our partners or agencies who believe in our mission of providing unbiased, accurate information to pre and post adoptive families and to foster families. They believe, you know we used to always say information is power and these are agencies that put their money behind that because they're sponsoring and supporting the show. One of such partner is adoptions from the heart. They have helped build over 6,000 families since 1985 through domestic infant adoption. They work with people all across the U S and are licensed in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, Virginia and Connecticut and we also have hopscotch adoptions. They are a Hague accredited international adoption agency and they place kiddos from, I like reading out this list. It's so soothing to me to say all but all the names are Menia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Georgia, Ghada, Ghana, Morocco, Pakistan, Serbia, Ukraine, and they also do kinship adoptions from any number of countries. So we thank both of them for their support of this show as well as all the resources we provide here at creating a family. All right, so now we are talking about transitioning, helping children transition from foster care and we're talking with Jane schooler. So the next thing I want to talk about is I want to get practical. So what are some things that parents can do to help their child transition from being a foster child to an adopted child? And some of the things we're going to suggest will naturally fit more smoothly if you are currently the foster parent or the resource parent to that child and others are going to be equally as valid for children who you have not parented before have, or you're transitioning from a different resource home or group home into your home. So what are some things that parents can do from a practical standpoint that will help their child and make this what is a very big deal? A very disruptive deal, make it go as smoothly as possible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well I'm going to refer if I could Don too, a little bit of a checklist. I have here and I think as you sit information is powerful and I would want to make sure that foster parents have as clear understanding of the child's placement history that they can from their social worker so they can engage in discussions with that child about their history long after the children services are gone and just
Speaker 2:some hands around that in number one, you're going to get a couple of different sources of information. One, you want to see the child's full file, not just the summary. You want to talk with your the child's case worker and if at all possible you want to talk with previous foster parents, so any other place that they can get this information.
Speaker 3:Oh, school teachers, good point. A school teachers, any slurs, therapists, people that have known that child. If the child's involved in church, finding out who not only their history, but who were the important significant people in this child's life. I want to know, I may have some idea because this child's been living with me. I often tell social workers that I train is you may assume that the foster parents have all the information cause they've had this job for a year or two but not necessarily. Not necessarily. And I tell them you need to present this child as a brand new adoptive child and says that all the information you give them, foster parents may know more than you as a social worker. But I would not assume that[inaudible]
Speaker 2:that's a good point. Another tip that we have talked about already and that is move slow and that is particularly the case where a child is coming from a different resource family into your home to allow for as long of a transition period as you can and and sometimes you as the foster parent have to be the advocate for that. We want to start with the meeting the child in there, the home where they're living and then maybe moving to taking the child to the park or you know, out to eat and moving to spending an afternoon with a child. Then moving to having an overnight and then perhaps spending a weekend and maybe then spending a week is slow. There'll be variations on this and there are unfortunately sometimes restrictions and real life issues that impacted, but this is what your goal is, is to allow for this child to become as familiar with you and your home as possible before they move in. So that's something we've already talked about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and Dawn, just real quickly here, what came to mind is oftentimes the reason these placements get hurried up and it's often unrecognized is foster parent grief. They are dealing with this child having to leave for whatever reason and so they want to hurry the process up and get it over with. And I think that's one of the most unrecognized issues for loving foster parents is that this foster parent grief isn't addressed and they are literally at the bottom of the totem pole in transitional issues. When you think about that their issues are not attended to the child's, the new family, the social were all of those issues. And then maybe if we have time, we'll think about the needs of the foster parents.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's such a good point. And one I really hadn't thought about it, but I think that that's, that just feels so spot on, you know? And so that leads us to a, another tip for parents who are in this case specifically transitioning from a different foster family into your home. And that is, uh, do what you can to work with the previous foster family to keep them in the child's life. And on some level, as much as they are comfortable with, be it telephone calls, FaceTime, uh, visits. They could be your, you know, a babysit or whatever. So that's another, uh, that would be another tip.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think about, you know, I've moved from one location and other, and I imagine you have to, and you naturally transition out of those relationships over time. Yeah, that's true. And our kids need that natural transitional time where there'll be a time that you say, when you want to call your foster mom, Susie on your birthday said, no, I don't need to this year. I'm okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's, yeah, and but to allow it to happen at the child's speed, not the adult speed. Okay, great. Okay. What's another tip that we might suggest?
Speaker 3:Well, I w I always like to do an extended family check. How I, how are engaged, whether they're adopting this child straight out foster care or they're coming into their home, buying from another family. What is the involvement? The extended family, what is the support system? Adults who are adopted as older children were ask who gave you the greatest sense of belonging in your new family? And they said the grandparents, huh? I believe you grandparents are key here or other extended family because they create that sense of you belong to us as a bigger family. So I would examine my expectations for my extended family and keeps those realistic. Maybe they're not going to be able to do all the babysitting. You think they will are going to be fully engaged as you hope they would. I think I'd have good discussions about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is a great point. Okay. I'll throw out one and because I threw out the one about maybe deciding upfront how to incorporate the foster parents, I would also say to consider how you can help your child maintain a connection to their roots, to their biological family. And we oftentimes in certainly in the past, have automatically thought, Oh gosh no, if we're adopting from foster care, you know, that's not an option, but it can be an option. And yeah, I may throw out a course that we have on open adoption and I think it's the title is in difficult birth parents situations. And oftentimes when you are adopting a child whose parental rights had been terminated through foster care, that may be the epitome of a difficult time, birth parents' situation. But there are definitely ways via that that, so I recommend that course. But there are definitely ways that you can, it may not be with the parents, it may be with grandparents or aunts or uncles. It could be through a, uh, through telephone calls just with the adults. It could be any number of things. Or it could be, you know, close Facebook group where you're sharing pictures and then the child can, you know, get questions answered if they, if they want. So any way that I would throw that out as another tip. Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And ask those questions ahead of time and how comfortable you are with that. I would think about what access do I have two pictures, Lifebook pictures, those kind of things. Some States, I don't know what is like where you are, but some States once that adoption is finalized, access to all that stuff is cut off. And so making sure I have the Alife book is actually the property of the child in some agencies. And I've heard this in training, I said you can't do that and actually take back the child's life book and remove personal family information because they're going to be adopted. So that's a child, you can't do that. So I would make sure what my state's requirements are or rules around that kind of make sure you have pictures of parents, birth parents and birth family in a safe place and they have access to important information.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And gather pictures. I mean, yeah. Well first of all, if a life book hasn't been created, consider creating one. Sure. And again, we have a resources in courses on how to create a Lifebook and we'll talk about that here, but being the librarian for trying to collect as many pictures, you know, baby pictures, pictures of birth parents, pictures of siblings, all of that and before the adoption is finalized is a good time to do it. And maybe currently, maybe your early time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That was a great suggestion. I'll just reiterate a point that you have made before and that is another tip would be to, especially when you're talking about children in the tween and teen years, is to give them as much voice as possible about what is happening. Okay. So just to say that again, even though we sent it in a number of times. Okay. So what would be another tip? You might think,
Speaker 3:well you might have kids in your home that are foster teens that are saying no to adoption and I would explore that with them because as say, no, I don't want to be adopted. Then you say, do you want a permanent family? Yes, I want a permanent family. They may not understand adoption. They may be dealing with the guilt of giving up on their birth family. I would absolutely explore that whole issue. Why unpacking would call what we call unpacking the no for kids that are in foster homes that the family really wants to adopt them and they are available for adoption. But the kids have just put a big red stop sign in front of it. And it may be that the family is willing, I'm Patrick O'Brian using the term moral adoption that the family makes a moral commitment to this child and then maybe someday the child's willing to make a legal commitment. Moral commitment says I, we will be your family here.
Speaker 2:So when you could do something short of adoption, if the child is really an, after you've talked about what adoption means and the child still doesn't want it, it's possible to do something like guardianship. Now sometimes you get a roadblock put in the way by caseworkers, but that's also a possibility. It is. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Um, how about another tip? That's a great one
Speaker 3:and we've talked a lot about the extended family ones that a little bit more about my circle of support. I think foster families and adoptive families in our trauma competent caregiving training that we do with back to back ministries. We have what we call the circle of support and that I have identified who those people are going to be and one of those people is a person who will be what I call the rock in my life, who will be with me and unconditionally and still invite me over with all these kids. You know what I mean by that? That I have a person that's wise person that he's going to tell me the truth. Maybe I'm really struggling with this child and that person says, Hey, this is more about you than it is the child. Let's work on your stuff. Then I have people that are learners, which is great. You have support groups going along around those are great learners together. Yeah, so those are three that I think that we need to look at our support because a lot of times extended family just get burnout and they can't continue to get the level of support they had. A hope to give and kind of a a a side shoot of that is go in expecting this is, this is more kind of advice for adopting an older child or a child past infancy, but go in expecting that there are going to be some hard times, can set your expectations realistically at the beginning. And I guess better to say is that realistic expectations and and so set up a support system for yourself in advance. You could always say it in, in your back of your mind saying, in case I need it, but in reality, most of us at some point will feel discouraged, disappointed, regret. All of those are very typical feelings for a major life change. So anticipated at the beginning and line yourself up for success. Okay. That's it. That's a great one. Yeah. Don Margaret back, I read recently use defined expectations as premeditated resentment. Oh, that's great. Premeditated resentment. And we don't and I to be kind, I put the word unconscious when I train that unconscious, premeditated resentment. We're not intending to get resentment, but when we set up expectations it can be lead to a lot of resentment. But the reality is we all set expectations. We can't, as humans we have a vision for what our future is going to be, but that's a different topic, a different conversation. I'm managing and setting realistic expectations. Okay. Let's see. If you are adopting trans culturally or transracially thinking in advance, how the maintain those ties for your child. That would be another good tip. Do you have any others? Well, when you have a foster child has been a new home awhile and then you move to adoption. Having that Rite of passage into this, a family that I would make the adoption hearing damn very, very special day. That there is a right and it was really interesting. We had one family I loved and I went to court and the whole extended family was there for this adoption and this grandfather had brought along this huge, huge pen, huge pen. He got, I don't know where he got it, and the adoptive parents signed all the legal stuff in front of the kids and then the kids signed documents and they were explaining how to time what they were. But I think making this as significant important. We honor, we use rituals to honor transitions and I think having beautiful ritual, a transition from foster care into adoption is really key too. And there's a way to do that. Being respectful that your child may have mixed emotions. I think that we do have to recognize that if our child, some children
Speaker 2:don't of course, but if our child has mixed emotions, then we can still ritualize it, but do it in a way that is respectful of that for them. We had an adopted who wrote a guest blog post once and she said adoption is like a marriage and a funeral all wrapped into one. Wow. I thought that was such a beautiful way to say it. So recognizing that and honoring that for some children and honestly for some other kids, and a lot is dependent upon age and reasons for the child's a termination. There's just a lot of things that go and tell us temperament and everything else here. And I've heard of children attempting to sabotage the adoption because for lots of reasons, closer to the court hearing, and you just work through all of that, you don't see that as the end. You work through it. Yeah. And when you say sabotage, give us an example of what sabotage might look like. Just escalated misbehavior, testing behavior, those kinds of things. Yeah. Pushing your buttons, pushing the limits. If it's going to fail, let's go ahead and have it fail now before everything happens. Yeah. Yes. Well, thank you so much, Jane schooler, for being our guests today to talk about, yeah, I'm so appreciative. This is an important topic. So thank you so much. The views expressed in this show are those of the guests do not necessarily reflect the position of creating a family, our partners, our underwriters, and keep in mind that the information given in this interview is general advice to understand how it applies to your specific situation. You need to work with your adoption professional.